Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Thracian language, or what is left of it anyway, has shown itself to be remarkably close to Balto-Slavic languages, on a much larger scale than with any other European language. Given that the area in which Balto-Slavic is spoken is somewhat larger than the Thracian territory, the notion that Thracian words in the Balto-Slavic languages are 'loan words' is automatically dismissed.

Check the following few to begin with:

Asa (Coltsfoot in Thracian)
Asys (Horse tail in Luthianian)
Opashka (Tail in Macedonian)
Ostro (Sharp in Macedonian)

Bolinthos (Wild bull in Thracian)
Biol (Bison in Macedonian)
Vol (Bull in Macedonian)

Brilon (Barber in Thracian)
Brichi (Shave in Macedonian)

Diza (Fortified settlement in Thracian)
Dzid (Wall in Macedonian)

Dinupula (Wild pumpkin in Thracian)
Dinya (Melon fruit in Macedonian)


There are plenty more to be posted.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I changed the title of the thread as the topics can be in the broader context of Balkan languages and Proto Slavic words in general.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Phrygian was spoken both in Asia Minor and the Balkans, where it is recorded that they lived among Macedonians, going by the name of Brygians and identified as a Thracian tribe.

When Alexander and the Macedonians entered Asia Minor they soon reached a certain river where a battle against the Persian forces took place. The river was located in Phrygian territory and was called Granicus (Granikos).

Given that rivers form natural boundaries, it is very likely that the name of this particular river has a relative in the word Granica (Granitsa), which is used in all Slavic languages to signify a 'border' or 'boundary'.

The word is related to a type of fortification or cordoning off, hence it may derive from the Phrygian word Gordum, which means 'city' and was the inspiration for the name of the Phrygian capital in Asia Minor.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/phrygia.htm

Gordum was the Phrygian word for city.

A word for city in the Slavic languages is Grad or Gorod, an obvious cognate and close relative of Gordum. Further words stemming from this can be seen in Zagradi which means to 'fortify', Gradina which means 'garden' (due to the concept of having a particular area cordoned off to grow foods), and Gradi which means 'chest' (due to the fortified protection the bones in that area give to vital organs).

Such close relation in words cannot have arisen from loans, Phrygian (Brygian) as a language spoken historically in Asia Minor and among the people of Macedonia and Thrace demonstrates significant links to the Slavic languages.

[Soldier of Macedon]

With regard to Grad, Gorod, Gordum, Granica, etc, there may be a relation to the ancient Macedonian word for a 'branch', recorded by Hesychius as Garkan, and in modern Macedonian Granka.

Given that a branch is on the edge and fringes of the body of a tree, it appears to indicate a relation with Granica as a 'boundary'.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Another ancient name for the river Danube is Ister (Istros), and is of Scythian or Thracian origin, or both. The word is very close to Macedonian Isturi and Turi which mean to 'spill' and 'pour' respectively, thus providing a link with reference to an action in relation to liquid (such as water). There is also Isterai and Terai which mean to 'push/move along/out' and 'move/force' respectively, indicating a relation to the movement of flowing waters in a river.

Radislav Katicic in his 'Ancient Languages of the Balkans' suggests that the Thracian word Istros means 'strong' or 'swift', related to a Sanskrit equivalent. Can there be a possible connection to the Slavic languages established with the word Ostro which means 'sharp'? If so, it would call into question the relation of this word to the Thracian Asa.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is an interesting one which has been mentioned previously, the Macedonian word Golem which means 'large'. In the same or similar form, it is present in some other Slavic languages although used in varying degrees such as Golyam (Bulgarian), Golem (Serbian, Croatian) and much less as Holem (Czech).

In the Greek language to word Megalo exists which means 'large'. The distinct similarity to the abovementioned Slavic word provides a strong case for a cognate.

While Macedonians (and Bulgarians and Serbs partially) have historically lived as direct neighbours of Greek-speakers, the Croats and Czechs have not, and these two shared no cultural or historical affinity with Greek-speakers in general.

If this is a Greek word by origin, how did the Czechs and Croats come to use it?

[Delodephius]

Just to ask you SoM, where did you find "holem" in Czech?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I read it in a Slavic language thread in a forum not too long ago where the poster had cited some poems or songs with the word. Is it present in Slovak, or do you think it is incorrect?

[Soldier of Macedon]

From here Slovak, check:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1159148

See post # 14:

In Czech the adjective holemý (the nominal form would be holem) means velký, veliký = big. But it is not used nowadays. I think the younger generation do not know it at all. Nothing in common with the Jewish golem. I think it is rather distantly related to holý (gol = bare) and hlava (glava, golova = head).

Some archaic examples:

Těch kobylek bylo toho roku množství veliké v Arabii, a po skalách hor svatých i po cestě zvlášť v noci místem jich dosti zhusta se prolétalo; a byly holemé, nebo když nám někdy o tvář zavadily, zdálo se nejináč, než jakoby kamínky malými házel.

Jest pak pštros pokolení ptačí a divoké zvíře, velké co by člověk prostřední rukou nad hlavu vysáhnouti mohl; nohy má holé a tlusté co holemé pachole v patnácti letech, ...

As a Czech I am assuming the poster called Cajzl is confident in the knowledge of his own language, but if something doesn't sound right, then I would appreciate it if you pointed it out, as it would limit the word to the Slavic languages in the Balkans although retaining distant Croatia.

[Delodephius]

Locative case of the word holý - naked, clear, is holem.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Check the below link also, it gives a more detailed version of the text:

http://citanka.cz/tocp1250.en/harant/II-11.html

What do you think?

[Delodephius]

The word "holemý" appears quite archaic and I only could find it in the dictionary of Old Czech not Modern. It also seems to appear only in Czech apart from the South Slavic languages, but I don't think it appears in Slovene.
It could have been imported by the Glagolitic liturgy from Croatia.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Interesting, thanks Slovak.

[Soldier of Macedon]

There is a Croatian tennis player called Roko KARANUSIC.

It would be interesting to determine the origin of that name.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=9867#post9867

The Thracian Pulpudeva produces some interesting information also, 'dava' and 'deva' are common suffixes of Thracian placenames, which are very similar to 'ovo', 'evo', 'ova' and 'eva' in Slavic.

Thacian toponyms found in the Balkans and beyond the Danube:

Pulpudeva, Zisnudeva, Cumudeva, Markodava, Pelendova, Giridava, Sucidava, Predava

Slavic toponyms, hydronyms, personal names and surnames found in the Balkans and beyond the Danube:

Kicevo, Brezovo, Tetovo, Trnava, Bratislava, Morava, Petreva, Mileva, Borislav, Voislava.


It seems that at some point the 'd' in 'deva' was dropped where now it is present as 'eva' and 'ava', and in other variants such as ovo, ova and evo.

In Slavic, the 'eva' suffix is reserved largely for female surnames, such as Petreva, Mileva, Gorgieva, etc. The 'ev' and 'ov' suffixes are common from Russia to Macedonia, this is a purely Slavic suffix.

There are no other linguistic groups that use such suffixes except the Slavic-speakers, who live exactly where the Thracians of the ancient period had existed. There can be no doubt that the Thracian language is related to the Balto-Slavic linguistic group, our language has ancient roots.

This will have more relevance here.