History of the Modern Serbs

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13669

    History of the Modern Serbs

    Below is collection of information from this forum and other sources, presenting a chronology of Serbian historical events where reference to the inhabitants and areas as Bulgarian and/or Greek is prevalent. The purpose is not to demonstrate that Serbs are the latter two, but that such terms are as insignificant to them as they are to the Macedonians and any others they applied to in the relevant centuries.


    9th Century

    The town was mentioned again not until the IX century, under the Slavic name BEOGRAD (White Town - probably because of the walls made of white limestone). It was in a letter of April 16, 878 which Pope John VIII wrote to the Bulgarian prince Boris-Mihailo, about the dismissal of a Christian bishop Sergije.
    Later, this name appeared in several variants: ALBA GRAECA, GRIECHISCH WEISSENBURG, NANDOR ALBA, NANDOR FEJERVAR, CASTELBIANCO, ALBA BULGARICA.
    14th Century
    The Travels of Sir John Mandeville, by Sir John Mandeville, 1357
    And the King of Hungary is a great lord and a mighty, and holdeth great lordships and much land in his hand. For he holdeth the kingdom of Hungary, Sclavonia, and of Comania a great part, and of Bulgaria that men call the land of Bougiers……….

    And after, go men to Belgrade, and enter into the land of Bougiers
    ; and there pass men a bridge of stone that is upon the river of Marrok.
    17th Century
    http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus/Le...frametext1.htm
    Simeon Lehaci, Balkan Traveller of Armenian origin, 1608-1620.
    In Bosnia, everywhere there are also many Bulgarian monasteries .... In Bosnia, all the people speak in Bulgarian........
    19th Century (Early)
    Mark Mazower, The Balkans
    As late as 1810, for instance, there were only two elementary schools in the Pashalik of Belgrade(the core of future Serbia), and in both the language of instruction was Greek.
    19th Century (Mid)
    Victor Roudometof, Nationalism,Orthodoxy, and Globalization



    TrueMacedonian, Daskalot and others, if you guys have more please add it here. One question I would like answered is how many times was the language of the Serbs referred to as 'Serbian' prior to the 19th century? Puchki was the common term as far as I know, any further information would be useful.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
  • TrueMacedonian
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3810

    #2
    I think I might have something more to this SoM. Give me some time and I post something soon.
    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13669

      #3
      No problem TM, anything further to the points above will be useful.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • TrueMacedonian
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2009
        • 3810

        #4
        In 1790 or in 1804, "Serb" always meant "peasant."
        Man, state, and society in East European history, page 131, By Stephen A. Fischer-Galați
        Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13669

          #5
          Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
          Man, state, and society in East European history, page 131, By Stephen A. Fischer-Galați
          Interesting, something more elaborate would be very useful, perhaps the sources that Fischer-Galati had used.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • TrueMacedonian
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 3810

            #6
            throughout many parts of Austria-Hungary to be a Serb meant to be a peasant and vice versa
            Austrian history yearbook, page 43, By Rice University, American Historical Association. Conference Group for Central European History, University of Minnesota. Center for Austrian Studies.
            Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #7
              I have noticed that the term Sebar, which meant commoner or peasant, has been a rejected theory as to the name of the Serbs themselves. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to look more into this name "sebar".
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13669

                #8
                Serb, Croat and Bulgar are all non-Slavic names that have a likely Iranic origin, and for the latter possibly even Turkic.

                Albania and Montenegro are both Latin names yet neither one or the other is Latin.

                Even the words Greece and Athens have no recognised 'Hellenic' etymology.

                Yet most of the above are too busy trying to negate Macedonian history, when they can't even explain the official and international names of their states in their own languages.

                That the 'Serb' name was used as a synonym for a Slavic peasant is beyond doubt, the user Bosnian once cited texts where the Serb and Bulgar names are mentioned as far as Dalmatia. The name for the language however, is somewhat different. I am having a hard time finding anything that refers to a 'Serbian language' prior to the 19th century.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Giorgo
                  Junior Member
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 2

                  #9
                  Even the words Greece and Athens have no recognised 'Hellenic' etymology.

                  What, Don't say things like that, it colours everything else you say with the same brush !!

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #10
                    "Graecoi" and "Atina" .... can you get your brush out and try some Greek etymology with these words?
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • TrueMacedonian
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3810

                      #11
                      SoM I'll keep looking for what you're talking about. I'll post something soon that may be of relevance to this topic.
                      Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13669

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Giorgo View Post
                        What, Don't say things like that, it colours everything else you say with the same brush !!
                        How should I say things Giorgo? Should I lie and say that the words 'Greece' and 'Athens' do have an etymology in the Greek language? I encourage you to open a specific thread for the topic and explain to all readers the Hellenic etymology of the above words.

                        Back to the topic at hand. Prior to, during and after its creation, Serbia had newspapers with the name 'Greciia' labelled on them, they only had 2 elementary schools in Belgrade in which the language of education was Greek, according to Serbs themselves such as Stojanovic and Karanovic the upper classes spoke and identified as Greeks. This was the exact same situation in Macedonia, Bulgaria and Albania. According to the logic that you people use in trying to criminally usurp the Macedonian identity for yourselves (unsuccessfully), even the Serbian population consisted of 'Hellenes'.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #13
                          Serbia had newspapers with the name 'Greciia' labelled on them, they only had 2 elementary schools in Belgrade in which the language of education was Greek
                          Wow, I did not realise the "brotherhood" ran that strong.

                          As an aside point, I did read that the (forming) Serbs of the 14th century were so fearful of becoming catholics that they preferred the oppression of the Turks.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • makedonin
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 1668

                            #14
                            Now I know why the Serbs and Greeks see them self as brothers.

                            Serbs are Greeks as Slavonians under cover, while the Greeks are Slavonians as Hellens under cover.

                            Wow, that even makes sense in a kind of bizar way
                            To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13669

                              #15
                              Here is an apparent citation of a 'Serbian' language from Bosnia in the 14th century.
                              http://cafehome.tripod.com/serbianbosnia.pdf
                              Bosnian Rullers called their Language Serbian. Bosnian ban (viceroy) Stjepan Kotromanic (1322-1353) declares in 1333. a letter to Dubrovnik in which he states: "thus I evoke to the noble ban Stefan my golden seal, so that all may know and see the truth. This is why the seals are equal, two in Latin and two in Serbian and all are sealed in gold". At the time, it was a tradition to give out four letters of the same text in Serbian and Latin. This letter may be found in Franc Miklosic, Monumenta Serbica, Vienna 1858. str. 105-109 Lj. Stojanovic - "Stare Srpske povelje i pisma" (old Serbian letters), I, 46.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

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