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-   -   Macedonian proto-nationalism (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7048)

TrueMacedonian 10-26-2012 09:59 AM

Macedonian proto-nationalism
 
If anyone has ever read Eric Hobsbawm's "Nations and Nationalism since 1780" you may have read about his take on proto-nationalism. Here's some sentences regarding proto-nationalism.

[QUOTE]ďWhy and how could a concept so remote from the real experience of most human beings as Ďnational patriotismí become such a powerful political force so quickly?......

You cannot point to the natural communities (families, villages, etc.) familiar to all humans throughout time, because nations differ from these in size, scale and nature. They are, as Benedict Anderson put it, imagined communities.......

However, perhaps there are certain communal sentiments that lend themselves ideally to being converted to or marshaled in favour of, nationalism. Call these proto-national sentiments, and they can either be supra-local (that is, uniting disparate communities, like belief in the Virgin Mary), or springing from local political communities.......

So what does constitute proto-nationalism? This is a difficult question to answer because it must be located in the minds of the illiterate, because it is a popular sentiment, and before the 20th century, the vast majority of mankind was illiterate.[/QUOTE]


Interesting. And how do we explain the village of [B]Macedonia[/B] in the Timis region of Romania from the [B]14th century [/B]which to this day is indeed inhabited by a Macedonian minority?

[url]http://www.proetnica.ro/en/22/macedonians.html[/url]

[QUOTE]The Macedonians from Romania are a Slavic, Orthodox population that came from Macedonia`s territory in several migration waves starting with the eleventh century. The Macedonians are a recognized national minority in Romania since 2000. The Macedonia village (Timis county) is one of the first Macedonian settlements in Romania, [B]documented by Catholic Church records in 1332-1337 under the name of Machadonia.[/B] [/QUOTE]

and still further information

[IMG]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/andric.png[/IMG]
page 160
[IMG]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/andric160.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/andric186.png[/IMG]

George S. 10-26-2012 03:40 PM

[LIST][/LIST]amazing find as usual TM congrats.Very intersting read.

Liberator of Makedonija 01-20-2018 02:56 AM

bump...........

TrueMacedonian 06-19-2018 08:58 AM

Bump. Post coincides with the Smyrna Clerk discussions of nationalism.

VMRO 06-19-2018 06:10 PM

If anyone wants the book by Eric Hobsbaw - "Nations and Nationalism since 1780"

I have it in pdf.

Liberator of Makedonija 06-20-2018 01:58 AM

To go off the write-up: There are numerous examples of Macedonian proto-nationalism which have been evidenced in this forum multiple times. I believe it may have been Victor Friedman (those who know him will know he is incredibly knowledgable about Macedonia) that estimated modern Macedonian nationalism to have began to develop around the 1860s.

TrueMacedonian 06-20-2018 12:00 PM

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;174320]To go off the write-up: There are numerous examples of Macedonian proto-nationalism which have been evidenced in this forum multiple times. I believe it may have been Victor Friedman (those who know him will know he is incredibly knowledgable about Macedonia) that estimated modern Macedonian nationalism to have began to develop around the 1860s.[/QUOTE]

Iím in disagreement. I donít think you can point to a timeframe as I believe it is even earlier than 1860.

Exhibit A:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1204[/url]


Exhibit B:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1287[/url]

Liberator of Makedonija 06-20-2018 11:45 PM

[QUOTE=TrueMacedonian;174388]Iím in disagreement. I donít think you can point to a timeframe as I believe it is even earlier than 1860.

Exhibit A:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1204[/url]


Exhibit B:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1287[/url][/QUOTE]


I agree, you can't put an exact date on things like this. Friedman never provided evidence as to why he suggested the 1860s, its possible this was merely a passing rough estimate or when he believed the existence of a Macedonian identity by this point was undenaible. The earliest reference to "Macedonianism" is from the 1860s I believe.

Carlin15 06-23-2018 01:00 AM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/pmsPJiS.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/42H4nqI.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/EVu8uG4.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Zsc7kll.jpg[/img]

Liberator of Makedonija 06-23-2018 02:16 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;174541][img]https://i.imgur.com/pmsPJiS.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/42H4nqI.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/EVu8uG4.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Zsc7kll.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

Very curious how the Bulgarian philism differs from Macedo-Bulgarianism? My guess would be the philism saw the Macedonians completely as Bulgarians and sought the integration of Macedonia into Bulgaria. Whilst Maceo-Bulgarianism could just be very Pro-Exarchist and whilst close with Buglaria, wished for Macedonia to be its own state.

No shock that "Macedonianism" intensified post-1870, the Exarchate can blame themselves for that one.


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