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And yet Bulgaria dares question our identity? Also feeds into the whole Bulgarian = peasant argument.
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I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented. -
The Greeks of Bulgaria are not Greeks.Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View PostAnd yet Bulgaria dares question our identity? Also feeds into the whole Bulgarian = peasant argument.
They relocated after the end of the Russo-Turkish War of 1828-1829. 1 from the villages of Golyam Bojalak (Sharkovo) and Malak Boyaluk (Malko Sharkovo), Kazazlarsko (Elhovo), Golyam Monastery and Little Monastery, Kavakliysko (Topolovgradsko) where they were known under the ethnographic name karyoti. Kariot called them their neighbors from the surrounding villages 2 .
In the southeast of Bulgaria, the "Greeks" inhabited two groups of villages - Kavakliy (Topolovgrad) - Kozludja (Oreshnik), Duganovo, Sinapli (Sinapovo), Chukurovo (Chukarovo), Golyam Monastery and Little Monastery. Agach (Elhovo) and the villages of Golyam Boyalak (Sharkovo), Little Boyak (Malko Sharkovo) and Muradali (Mamarchevo) 3 . They dealt mainly with parchment (gardening).
According to Konstantin Irechek (1888), the karyotes are named after the Greek name of the village of Kozlodja - (Karais, Kariosches). "The kariot's wearer is perfectly Bulgarian, with the cap together. Men do not know all Bulgarian, but there are women who know it. Singing songs with foreign intruders, eg. with Bulgarian refreees, like "yakla Yane!", shows that these Greeks are in part only bully Bulgarians; in Kavakli, now perfectly Greek, a neighborhood is still called Bulgar Mahala . According to the topographic nomenclature, which, with few exceptions, is perfectly Turkish, it can be judged that the Christian population is also of a newer origin " 4 .
In the eighteenth and especially in the nineteenth century under the pressure of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Greek clergy, and also seduced by some material gains and privileges, the kareots started to wrinkle but did not lose their Bulgarian language based on ancient vocabulary and mixed with some Greek and Turkish words.
When settling in the villages of Tatar (Kipra), Kara Hussein (Sratsimir / Chernevo), Kozludja (Novgrad / Suvorovo) and Krivna, their new neighbors started to call them "Greeks" because of the Greek 5 . The kareots sing Bulgarian songs. Bulgarians were also their customs. In their settlements in Southeastern Bulgaria the men wore white boots (narrow upper men's underpants in the northwestern Bulgarians Belodreshkovtsi) and white shorts (short overcoat) characteristic of the costa 6 . Gradually, they were replaced with the black and gray costume that is characteristic of this end. After their resettlement in the Varna region, where they stood - in a compact Bulgarian population (such as Kozludja and Krivnya), they quickly regained their Bulgarian self-consciousness. They themselves said: "We are Bulgarians, but we are Greek people". This reverse process of bulgarianization in the village of Taptenko and especially in the village of Kara Hussein, where the population lived in a compact way, developed more slowly.Last edited by tchaiku; 07-18-2018, 06:48 AM.Comment
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I know this perfectly well, only highlights how stupid Bulgarian arguements are against us when the same arguments can apply to them.Originally posted by tchaiku View PostI know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
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Bulgarians love to go on about all the Macedonians that supported the Bulgarian military during the Balkan Wars but never mention that Macedonians supported and were enlisted in the militaries of all the Balkan League members, not just Bulgaria.
According to Wikipedia, Vasil Cekalarov supported the Greek Army and then switched to the Bulgarian Army via the Macedonian-Adrianopolitan Volunteer Corps:
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
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If there was one person who is worthy of being credited as the biggest Bulgarian propagandist in internet history it would have to be this guy. He trolls Wikipedia articles relating to Macedonian history and the Macedonians, making sure that it conforms to the Bulgarian paradigm which he has inculcated in people to be the "neutral" view of international scholarship and that the Macedonian view belongs to Communist-influenced fringe theorists in the Republic of Macedonia. There is seemingly not a day that goes by that he doesn't make an edit and this guy has been active for over a decade...
It seems that over the years he has succeeded in virtually ridding Wikipedia of editors contributing information contrary to his beliefs, and he recently created and wrote an article titled "Historiography in the Republic of Macedonia" (July 5) which is little more than a polemic against Macedonian nationhood with a hodgepodge of the same rhetoric and sources he's been touting since I was a contributor back in my high school days.
It is for this these reasons that so many Wikipedia articles in this field read more like an agenda to prove what ethnicity someone was rather than objectively focusing on their merits. I wrote this so you that you may understand what kind of people we're dealing with and why Wikipedia is hardly a reliable place to derive information.Comment
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Well said..........Originally posted by Om3n View PostI know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
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Great find Om3n. Narrowing it down to common culprits is always good help. But man, this bastard is editing/creating 10 articles on a daily basis. I think the best thing to do is try to report this asshole (somehow) as what he is doing is clearly against wikipedia guidelines:Originally posted by Om3n View Post
... content hosted in Wikipedia is not for:
Advocacy, propaganda, or recruitment of any kind: commercial, political, scientific, religious, national, sports-related, or otherwise. An article can report objectively about such things, as long as an attempt is made to describe the topic from a neutral point of view. You might wish to start a blog or visit a forum if you want to convince people of the merits of your opinions.
...
Edit: wow this guy has been spreading disinformation on wikipedia since 2007...Last edited by maco2envy; 07-29-2018, 12:22 AM.Comment
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Consider this edit he made to the article of Nikola Karev. After the sentence "he is considered a Bulgarian hero in Bulgaria", he removed "and a Macedonian hero in Macedonia" and his rationale for the edit is "minor tweaks to NPOV" (neutral point of view).
If you look at the article itself, it has a picture with the caption "Excerpt from the photograph of the 1900–1901 graduates, among whom was Nikola Karev, from the Bulgarian Gymnasium in Bitola." The picture doesn't show Nikola Karev nor most of graduates but is merely a crop of the board to signify that it says "Bulg." implying Karev's ethnicity. It is hard to believe how truly deluded and pathetic some people can be.Comment
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I've got a gut feeling that this guy is being paid, or that he is just a massive loser. That level of obsession is just unhealthy.Comment
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Yeah, who else could dedicate that time?Originally posted by maco2envy View PostI know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
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That was my thinking, maco. I hope for his sake he is getting paid otherwise it's just... sad.Comment
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LOL
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So it looks like their plan is to slowly and carefully transfer all the anti-Macedonian trash from wikipedia.bg, which mind you has a ridiculous amount of propandaga articles on Macedonia (20,000+):
Wow, it is starting to seem like this guy is falling in the later category of my suspensions.Comment
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The date in that picture is the same day the Wikipedia article I cited in my first post was created. Also compare the name of the topic to this edit(-war) he made on the Macedonian Wikipedia almost two years ago. Old mate can’t leave well enough alone.
Plot twist: he is actually notorious in the Bulgarian online community and is considered to be a paid gatekeeper of sorts. He has been accused of being a “Macedonian Pomak” spreading “Macedonian propaganda” about Bulgarians – allegedly, that the proto-Bulgars were a Turkic-Mongol tribe which was supplanted by Slavs after arriving in the Balkans – and suppressing Bulgarian editors from acknowledging that the proto-Bulgars were a Hunnic/Indo-Scythian people from whom the modern Bulgarians are direct descendants (as well as Thracians and Moesians). There is allegedly even a Facebook group with some hundreds of members dedicated to removing him from Wikipedia and has been reported to the authorities for “anti-Bulgarian propaganda” (I literally can’t help but laugh at that). Case in point here and here. The latter link has some lulzworthy debates between him and his detractors and one poignant observation reads: “After reading the history of this article I've noticed another things that are wrong.Why is wikipedia allowing certain people to monopolize articles like this guy...” Why indeed.
All I would say to him is, if he’s going to use a unique username, he probably shouldn’t use it exclusively on every website he signs up to, especially not on ones that contain his personal information and make it easy to find out everything about him with a simple Google search.Comment
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"Until 1860, not only here in Serbia, but also among the Bulgarians themselves, it was not known that there are Slavs in Macedonia"
ИЗВЕШТАЈ НА СТЕФАН ВЕРКОВИЌ ЗА СВОЈАТА МИСИЈА НА ШИРЕЊЕ НА СРПСКАТА ПРОПАГАНДА ВО МАКЕДОНИЈА (9 јануари 1877 год.)
...До 1860 година не само овде во Србија туку и меѓу самите Бугари не било познато дека во Македонија има Словени!
Така се изразил покојниот Гарашанин (министер за надворешни работи на кралството Србија, н.б.) во 1861 година во Цариград пред видниот бугарски патриот д-р Чомаков, кога бил таму по налог на блаженопочившиот кнез Михаил по некаква државна работа. Тоа пак го разбрал одвај тогаш кога јас ги објавив женските песни на македонските Словени каде се наоѓа нешто и за статистиката на оваа земја...
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