Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    Originally posted by Gocka View Post
    This has a million ways it can fail. So we shouldn't give up hope just yet.
    Despite the little optimism left, I want to agree. It is also why I think this so-called "agreement" could bring instability to the region, which, contrary to its apparent intention, is exactly what Macedonia needs in some form to turn the course away from the impending disaster.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      Macedonians and Macchiato, by Mark Steyn
      Steyn on the Oakley Show
      January 31, 2019

      URL:
      On Wednesday afternoon, I kept my midweek date with John Oakley on Toronto's Global News Radio 640. Among the topics were the Liberals' new Ministry of Truth, Howard Schultz's venti presidente campaign, and whether the concept of "foreigners" still


      Go to the link and click play - start listening at minute 3:45 (it's basically from 3:45 until 4:40):

      "In order to be able to join the European Union Macedonia had to rename itself as blueberry muffin with side order of green cheese"


      URL:
      On Monday Tucker and I chewed over the news that Hillary Clinton may be contemplating a third presidential run: "I do think it makes a lot of sense," Steyn said on "Tucker Carlson Tonight." "When the Florida Democrats decide to steal it, then the Broward


      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        Firms with Macedonia-related names need to clinch rights

        URL:
        The name “Macedonia” features in various forms in the brands of 182 Greek businesses across all sectors – with 39 in the food and agricultural sector – while over 4,000 businesses use the term to describe one or more of their products.


        The name “Macedonia” features in various forms in the brands of 182 Greek businesses across all sectors – with 39 in the food and agricultural sector – while over 4,000 businesses use the term to describe one or more of their products. The ratification of the Prespes deal between Athens and Skopje has raised questions about what the future hold for them.

        Of foremost concern is the fact that entrepreneurs in Macedonia will have the right to use this name too, calling for a constructive dialogue on the regulations that will be required and agreed.

        The lack of clarity concerning the key details of this issue is prompting experts advise Greek businesses to secure the rights to their logos and names, according to existing European and international procedures. The commercial chambers in northern Greece have already started taking action, offering legal advice and assistance.

        The deal, however, will not affect products with a protected Designated of Origin (POP) or Geographical Indicator (PGE), as their names cannot be disputed since they have been determined via the provisions, terms and decisions of the European Union.

        The Prespes agreement includes a key provision on commercial names. Article 1, Paragraph 3 says that as far as trademarks and brand names are concerned, the two sides “agree to support and encourage their business communities to institutionalize a structured and in good faith dialogue, in the context of which [they] will seek and reach mutually acceptable solutions on the issues deriving from the commercial names, trademarks, the brand names and all relevant matters at bilateral and international level.”

        The agreement also provides for the creation of an international team of experts within the year that will consist of representatives of both states and will have three years, until 2022, to complete its work. This provision possibly means that many name and trademark issues will be addressed from the start. Even if this is the case, legal experts told Kathimerini businesses which have secured air-tight protection for their trademarks and commercial names will be in a much better position, regardless of the final decisions of the international team of experts.

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          Viewpoints of average Greek citizens. Melville–Jones is a "moderate" in comparison.

          URL:
          Our readers responded to the plethora of articles and opinion pieces showing different aspects of the long-standing name dispute, including a plethora of opinions. We were inundated with messages on …


          YOUR SAY: Is the Prespes Agreement really a resolution of the long-standing name dispute?

          4 February 2019

          Our readers responded to the plethora of articles and opinion pieces showing different aspects of the long-standing name dispute, including a plethora of opinions. We were inundated with messages on social media. Here’s a sample of what you, our readers, had to say:

          FACEBOOK

          Brady Kiesling, respectfully, I do not agree with your stance. Please read some more on the history of Macedonia, then you may realise that revisionist history and usurping another’s history is not moral nor “common sense”.

          Stelios Shizas

          I’m very interested in the comment “beneficial to both countries”. I can only see benefits to FYROM and cannot see how Greece has benefitted from this very unpopular agreement. Instead of looking at how this small country got named Macedonia in the first place we are lectured as to what a good decision this agreement is. Why weren’t they called South Serbia or West Albania? Macedonia is Greek and please don’t argue they are to be called “North”. The North will disappear very soon if it has not already done so. In the first sentence the professor talks of a statue of Alexander the Great being erected in Skopje… Why professor? What have Alexander and the Skopjians got in common? Nothing at all!! His article is so “sitting on the fence” that it’s laughable….but what do we expect from a Melville – Jones, go back to our Greece’s long and golden history professor and get your facts right. There is one Macedonia and it is in northern Greece where Alexander was born. FYROM is not Macedonia… It never was and it never will be!!!

          Anthoula Paraskeva

          You know I have never paid much attention to this. Throughout my youth I had friends that were Slav Macedonian. A couple if weeks ago I was flipping through channels on TV and channel 44. Macedonian program was scheduled, I stopped flipping because I thought it was Greek as they were depicting Greek sights from Thessaloniki e.g. Leuko Pirgo, the show wax not Greek, but Slav Macedonian. The fact that they were depicting Greek Macedonian landmarks anger me so much.

          Sophie Ellis Manis

          Read the articles that have been imposed on them. I don’t understand why people are still angry. We are getting all these concessions for the price of withdrawing a veto. As much as we deny it, their name since 1992 was the Republic of Macedonia. Now it will be called the Republic of North Macedonia. Why weren’t people angry when they were given the name FYRO Macedonia? What exactly has changed?

          Steve Mitsos

          Steve Mitsos the veto was our only remaining bargaining chip. Do you understand this? It has now been thrown away. Their nationality, language, and identity is now officially Macedonian (even in Greece) and mine is not. The fact they reluctantly acknowledge it as ‘different to ancient greek’ means jack to me. The world will forever be confused into thinking they are the only Macedonians, solely because we have given up the fight.
          And if you think we weren’t angry with the INTERIM name of FYROM, then I believe you have not seen the many rallies and protests organised throughout the past 30 years. Again, this problem should’ve been solved back in 1992 with a phone call to Milosevic.

          Adam Edessa
          We are not happy because officially the Greek government and everyone else will recognise their nationality and language as Macedonian which was never the case before!

          Stavros Karakoutas

          Steve Mitsos, what has changed is the Greek Government has signed an agreement that says: Country: Nth Macedonia; Language: Macedonian; Ethnicity: Macedonian. There never was a Macedonian language or country. Their second language is Albanian .It doesn’t matter how many countries recognise them as FYROM . Greece gave them what they where wanting for years our recognition We have sold out our identity and our history. Macedonia is Greece , not a country that consists of 40 per cent Albanians, 30 per cent Bulgarian, 20 per cent Serbs and 10 per cent gypsies and Turks. This will open up a can of worms with regards to Greek businesses, Μακεδονικός Χαλβάς etc and now some of them want to claim compensation against Greece and it’s only going to get worse what’s next? Θράκη, Ήπειρος, Δωδεκανήσα. I am from Thessaloniki, so now I am Greek from the region of South Macedonia.

          Ioannis Mylonas

          Steve Mitsos okay so forget 3000 years of Μακεδονία and Greek history and legacy of the Hellenistic world after Alexander’s empire.
          Change your name Steve, let your neighbour use your name.
          Forget the blood that was spilt during the Balkan wars to free Μακεδονία from the Komitadji Bulgarians and Ottomans. Why do they claim Μακεδονία when 100 years ago that region was called Vardaska? The whole pseudo state naming of Macedonia in former Yugoslav territory had one objective… to annex our Μακεδονία and gain access to the Aegean.
          Slavs that erect Greek warrior statues in their capital city, use Greek symbols Star or Vergina, claim to be descendants of Ancient Μακεδονη.
          Already they are talking about a Southern Macedonia province with ‘ethnic” Macedonians which is complete crap!! The Slavic people that reside in Μακεδονία today in places pike Φλορινα or Καστοριά claim this crap! Yet they are Slavs, left there by the Greek army or government and should have been given their marching orders into Yugoslavia like most of them at the time.
          Why can’t they accept there Slavic roots and call themselves something else?

          Stavros Symbonis

          Neos Kosmos welcomes robust dialogue on matters concerning the expats living in Greece and the Greek diaspora from around the world. The views and opinions expressed in letters to the editor or the opinion section of our website and newspaper are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official position of the publisher. Send your opinions to [email protected]

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
            Viewpoints of average Greek citizens. Melville–Jones is a "moderate" in comparison.
            Carlin, why do you keep posting this anti-Macedonian trash like we aren't all aware what these animals think of us already? We get it, Melville-Jones and average Greek citizens hate us. I don't see what value there is by repeatedly giving them a platform here.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              Most of it is fine. But this last one is just a bunch of Griks in a bouzoukia having a moan.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                Most of it is fine.
                Most of what? If one is to post rubbish like that then they should at least challenge it.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                  Most of what?
                  Most of Carlin's posts.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Most of Carlin's posts.
                    I am referring to the last few. Didn't mention anything about the others.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      No prob I get your drift

                      Comment

                      • tchaiku
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 786

                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                        Carlin, why do you keep posting this anti-Macedonian trash like we aren't all aware what these animals think of us already? We get it, Melville-Jones and average Greek citizens hate us. I don't see what value there is by repeatedly giving them a platform here.
                        Macedonians are the most hated people in Greece. Definitely more than the Albanians and Bulgarians, Turks are questionable ... maybe if it wasn't for the islands and Cyprus the answer would be clear.

                        Comment

                        • Niko777
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 1895

                          Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                          Macedonians are the most hated people in Greece. Definitely more than the Albanians and Bulgarians, Turks are questionable ... maybe if it wasn't for the islands and Cyprus the answer would be clear.
                          Greek media have always portrayed Greece's weakest neighbor as the country's biggest threat

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8531

                            Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                            Greek media have always portrayed Greece's weakest neighbor as the country's biggest threat
                            We have the largest moral claim against them. Half of their current territory and a decent part of "their" history.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              It never ceases to amaze me how nationalism, state-organized history education (brainwashing) and intolerance completely changes otherwise "normal" people. What we saw in that sample from Neos Kosmos deserves no response. You just have to stand in "awe and amazement".

                              Comment

                              • Niko777
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 1895

                                North Macedonia and Greece to decide ownership of name for branding

                                A committee is to decide, over the next three years, which products may continue to use the term 'Macedonian'.


                                Full article and video: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...153036899.html

                                Comment

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