Origins of Albanian language and ethnos

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    URL:


    THE SETTLEMENT OF THE MARDAITES AND THEIR MILITARY-ADMINISTRATIVE POSITION IN THE THEMATA OF THE WEST: A CHRONOLOGY
    MILOŠ CVETKOVIĆ

    Mardaite soldiers were a significant factor in Byzantine-Arab relations in the border areas in the east of the Empire during the 7th century. Centuries later - in the late ninth and first half of the tenth century - they represented an important part of the Roman naval forces in Asia Minor and the Balkans; sources mention them as sailors in the theme of Kivireot and in the western themes of the Peloponnese, Nicopolis and Kefalonia.

    Their relocation from the eastern border is a consequence of the treaty of Emperor Justinian II with the Arabs; historians, however, did not provide an answer to the question of when colonization was carried out in the three mentioned topics in the west. It is unlikely that the Mardaites moved to the west at the end of the 7th century - when an agreement was made between Caliph Abimelech and Emperor Justinian II - because Constantinople did not have firm rule in the Peloponnese and Epirus at that time. It is hard to believe, then, that at that time, in parallel with the colonization of Mardait into the Kivireot theme, some of them were moved to the Balkans. The rule of Byzantium in the Peloponnese was established a whole century after the conclusion of the mentioned agreement, more precisely after Stavraki's campaign in 783. Therefore, the time of the settlement of the Mardait garrison in the southern Balkans should be sought in the interval between 783 and 877/878. year, when the Peloponnesian Mardaites first appear. Consequently, it can be concluded that the Mardait colonists came to the Balkans, not from Syria and Lebanon, but from Ataleia in the Kivireot theme, where they lived from the end of the 7th century, forming part of a special military-administrative unit headed by Katepan. Although there are no original data that explicitly speak about the colonization of Mardaites in the Peloponnese, some sources, such as the Monemvasia Chronicle, provide information on colonization measures that could be indirectly linked to the Mardaite migration.

    The author of the mentioned chronicle talks about the immigration of, among others, Thracians, Armenians and certain Kafirs to the area of ​​the Peloponnesian theme in the time of Emperor Nichifor I. Peter Charanis believes that the mysterious Kafirs were, in fact, inhabitants of the Kivireot theme, assuming that writing about these events, he had before him information about the settlers, whereby those from the subject of Kivireot in the template are listed in abbreviated form as Kiviri (Κιβυρρ / Κοιβαιρ), which the chronicler mistranslated as Kafiri. Bearing in mind that in the quoted section of the Monemvasia Chronicle, the infidels are listed on a par with the Thracians, who were inhabitants of the Thracian theme, as well as the Armenians, probably members of the Armenian theme, Haranis's interpretation seems to be correct. In that case, it is about the topic of Kivireot. Among the Kivireots who were relocated at that time, there could certainly have been Atalean Mardaites. Therefore, it can be assumed that it was Emperor Nichifor I who was responsible for the relocation of the Mardaites of Asia Minor to the Balkans. Their settlement could have aimed at strengthening Byzantine rule and overpowering the Slavic ethnic element, at a time when a new theme was being formed in the Peloponnese. The mentioned emperor, by the way, undertook extensive colonizing measures throughout the Empire. On the other hand, the settlement in the remaining two topics in the west - Nikopol and Kefalonia - was carried out somewhat later than in the Peloponnese, since the first mention of Nikopol and Kefalonian Mardaites is related to events in the first half of the 10th century. Their relocation was realized as part of the strengthening of the Byzantine positions in the Ionian Sea after the battles with the Arabs in that area around 880. The Mardaite migration in Epirus probably took place in parallel with the formation of the Nikopol theme, in order to strengthen its recruiting potential. Western-themed Mardaites functioned in units under the leadership of the Turmarch. In each of the three mentioned themes in the Balkans, there was one Mardaite prison, similar to the model of Persian ethnic prisons that were distributed in themes throughout the Empire during the 9th century. Similar to their military-administrative structure, other ethnic prisons stationed in various Roman themes functioned, such as the prisons of the Goths, Bulgarians or Evidits.
    Last edited by Carlin; 07-31-2020, 05:42 PM.

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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      viii.11.2. Albanians

      The lack of close linguistic relationship of Albanian with Illyrian, the lack of Proto-Albanian toponymy in Illyria, and the absence of indigenous sea-faring terminology in the reconstructed language (borrowing corresponding words from Romance or Greek) make it likely that Albanians were unrelated to the ancient Illyrians. It has been proposed that they came from further north, with the settling of Proto-Albanians believed to be in Dacia Ripensis and farther north, in the foothills of the Carpathian Mountains and the Beskidy/Bieszczady (possibly a toponym of Albanian origin), with the migration to Illyria via the eastern slopes of the Balkans taking place before (but not much earlier than) their contact with Romance speakers and the end of the Proto-Albanian period (Orel 1998).

      The diversity of haplogroups among modern Albanians reflect their complex ethnogenesis (Peričić et al. 2005; Battaglia et al. 2008): An origin of the Albanoid homeland close to the north-west Pontic region during the Iron Age, before their expansion and subsequent Y-DNA bottlenecks, is supported by the prevalent E1b1b1a1b1-L618 lineages (ca. 24–44%)—mainly V13+ (formed ca. 6100 BC, TMRCA ca. 2800 BC)—a haplogroup found previously in Neolithic Hungary and among Scythians of the north-west Pontic area, with a likely origin in early European farmers; and by hg. R1b1a1b2-M269 (ca. 18–20%), mainly R1b1a1b1b3a1a1c-Y10789 with Z2705+ (formed ca. 700 BC, TMRCA ca. AD 550), a subclade of R1b1a1b1b-Z2103. Their close contact with other Palaeo-Balkan groups, probably through mixture with local peoples of the Balkan and Adriatic regions after their migration from the Carpathians, possibly as early as the 7th century BC (Witczak 2016), is to be inferred from the presence (ca. 15–17%) of J2b2a1-L283 lineages (formed ca. 7700 BC, TMRCA ca. 3400 BC), proper of Balkan populations; but also possibly from hg. R1b1a1b2-PF7562 (ca. 5%)[31], an early offshoot of R1b1a1b2-M269, associated directly or indirectly to the Yamna expansion to the west (see §vi.1. Disintegrating Indo-Europeans).




      A lot of speculation in the second paragraph, especially around the following (i.e. 'probably', 'possibly'):

      "Their close contact with other Palaeo-Balkan groups, probably through mixture with local peoples of the Balkan and Adriatic regions after their migration from the Carpathians, possibly as early as the 7th century BC (Witczak 2016)"


      PS: Beskidy/Bieszczady toponym




      "Hypothesized to be derived from Latin *pastica, from pastus,[1] but unlikely because of unsolved phonetic difficulties. More likely from *bjershkë, a derivative of bie (“to fall”) (see pjeshkë < *pjershkë < Latin persica). The term could be the source or related to the oronym Beskidy mountains.[2] Orel also claims it to be from Proto-Albanian *beškā, contradicting his derivation from Latin pastus.[3]"
      Last edited by Carlin; 08-04-2020, 08:35 PM.

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        Fascinating - Albanians of Montenegrin origin






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        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          Interesting indeed.
          And the last image is quite significant in my opinion. At footnote 19, the desire to keep the daughters as Christians is a clear message about keeping the true identity alive. Becoming Muslim was purely business for the men, but the real identity was preserved in the women. Fascinating.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            From the 10th century - Suidae Lexicon testifies:

            Αλβανοι: ονομα εθνους Γαλατων. τουτων φασι την γην ευδαιμονα και καρπους ενενκειν ουσαν αγαθην, οινον ἡδυν και πολυν εχουσαν.

            Albanians: the name of Gallic people. They say that the land of this people is rich and good for agriculture, as well as that it brings sweet wine in large quantities.

            URL:


            Wikipedia article:


            PS - The existence of Celtic words, isoglosses, in the Albanian language was first stated by the scholar Vincenc Dorsa, who relied on Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (1646-1716), who literally said: "That the Illyrians (= Slavs) and Celts borrowed their linguistic elements to the (modern) Albanian language..."
            Last edited by Carlin; 10-13-2020, 02:32 PM.

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            • Dove
              Member
              • Aug 2018
              • 170

              Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (1646-1716), who literally said: "That the Illyrian s (= Slavs) and Celts borrowed their linguistic elements to the (modern) Albanian language..."
              Hi Carlin, I cannot make sense of "borrowed to", will you please clarify this for me? i.e. Who or what is doing the borrowing?

              Comment

              • Amphipolis
                Banned
                • Aug 2014
                • 1328

                By the way the Suda refers to these people

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  Albanian language parallels with the Balto-Slavic languages

                  Gustav Mayer was the first and, after him, all other scholars, who compared the Albanian language with the Balto-Slavic, came to the conclusion that the Albanian language is the brother of Lithuanian. So, as an example, Norbert Jokl, known as an undoubted friend of the Albanian people. He says that the Albanian language has strong similarities with the Balto-Slavic languages, as well as with the Hungarian-Finnish languages.

                  In the field of vocabulary, Albanian Shaban Demiraj cites many words, to which we attach many words from ALBANIAN ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY, just enough to get an idea of ​​this similarity:


                  Albanian – Lithuanian


                  acar – ašrus

                  ajkë – alkti

                  amull – mulve

                  arë – àra (Latvian)



                  bal – balas, bàls (lat.)

                  baltë – baltas

                  bli – blindis

                  boj – bëgti

                  botë – butìs

                  bredh – brendù

                  brez – briaunà

                  buj – bundù

                  buzë – bude



                  cermë – sarma (lat.)

                  citë – kietas



                  çars – skìrti

                  çjerr – sliriù



                  dak – dvekti

                  dangë – danga (lat.)

                  dash – dausos

                  dell – gysla

                  derdh – dardeti

                  dikë – dykas

                  djal – dels (lat.)

                  djeg – degù

                  dra – dradzi (lat.)

                  dranga – drangan

                  dre – draudžiu, druvas (lat.)

                  dregë – dìrginti

                  duaj – dùona

                  dhemb – žembiù



                  end – indas

                  err – aušrà

                  esh – ežys

                  et – alkti



                  fishkem – pùškas

                  flak – lekiù

                  flaškët – plokščias

                  fletë – lekiù

                  fryj –sprugstu



                  galamsh, lamsh – lemesis (lat.)

                  gardh – gardas

                  gdhij – diena

                  ger – gauras

                  gërdhij – grendžiu

                  gërshas – giriù

                  gledhë – glodus

                  gobellë – gaubti

                  grah – giriù

                  grave – griovà, grava (lat.)

                  grerë, gremzë – šuršuo

                  grellë – gurklys

                  grih – griejù

                  grij – geriù

                  grimë – geriù

                  grunë – žìrnis

                  grykë – griva

                  guall – galvà

                  gur – girià



                  gjaj – labas

                  gjak – sakai

                  gjalmë – iš-selpineti

                  gjashtë – galas

                  gjerë – jùosti

                  gjuhë – galsas

                  gjysmë – jumis (lat.)



                  hale – skalà

                  harr – skiriù

                  hime – skiemuo

                  hip – kùpti

                  humb – skumbù

                  hurdhë – verdu

                  hyj – ateivis



                  iki – eiki

                  imtë – isas



                  jargë – aržùs

                  jerm – erms (lat.)

                  josh – jaudinti

                  ju – jus



                  kabisht – kabeti

                  kalesh – laiska

                  karmë – kerpù

                  karpë – karpa

                  kep – kapiù

                  ketër – kuokas

                  këpurdhë – kèpurë

                  kërtyl – tulas

                  kërrabë – kerù

                  kësen – kenkiù

                  kështallë – stalas

                  kollë – kosulys

                  korr – kasù

                  kreh – grebti

                  krimb – kìrmis

                  kripë – kraupùs

                  kungull – kunkulas

                  kulpër – kìlpa



                  llënjës – slienas

                  llurbë – laure

                  llup – lùpti, lupt (lat.)



                  la, lë – laîst (lat.)

                  lag – liuga

                  landë – lenta

                  lapë – lapas

                  latë – lopeta

                  leh – loju

                  lej – leisti

                  lerë – laure

                  lesh – laiškas

                  lëpushë – lapas

                  lig (i) – ligà

                  lilë – leilas

                  lind – leisti

                  lingë – linge

                  lopë – luops (lat.)

                  loqe – liaukà

                  lumak – lubà

                  lus – lugoti, lùndzu (lat.)

                  lyp – liepiù



                  majë – mala (lat.)

                  mal – malà

                  mat – matuju

                  meh, mef – maût (lat.)

                  mëllenjë – melns (lat.)

                  mërshë – mirti

                  mitë – mietas

                  mjedhër – medis

                  mjegull – miglà

                  mjekër – smakras

                  mjel – melžiu

                  modhull – mažùlis

                  mot – metas

                  motër – mote

                  murg – margas



                  natë – naktìs

                  ndes – dàkyti

                  ndulkem – tekliù

                  ndjek – tekù

                  ngrij – gliejù

                  ngrydh – gružiu

                  ngrys – krauju

                  ngul – kùlti

                  ngus – kauti

                  ngjis – gliejù



                  pellë – pèšti

                  pelq – pelce (lat.)

                  pjalm – pelenai

                  pjerdh – pérdžiu

                  plak – pilkas

                  plas – platùs

                  plish – pl(i)ušìs

                  plogësht – plokščias

                  purth – purvas



                  qas – kečiù

                  qek – kaceti (lat.)

                  qersë – kùrkt (lat.)

                  qetë – šlaitas

                  qeth – kaisti

                  qipi – kaupos

                  qos – kliaudyti

                  qyl – kula



                  rjep – repti

                  rys – rauti

                  ryej – raundà



                  rrag – srùoga

                  rrek – reikà

                  rrime – varmas

                  rroj – roju

                  rryp – verpti



                  samë – šuo

                  sôr – sausas

                  sqaq – kekos

                  sutë – šùkos

                  sy – akì



                  shkas – skàsti

                  shosh – sijoju

                  shkas – skantu

                  shkrabë – skrebeti

                  shkul – keliù

                  shkund – skutù

                  shorr – seijù

                  shpih – peikiù

                  shtagë – stega (lat.)

                  shtalbër – stulbas

                  shtang – stengiu

                  shteg – staiga (lat.)

                  shtoj – stoju

                  shtrohë – straja (lat.)



                  tanë, tërë – tvinti, tvanas

                  tall – tylù

                  ter – tauras

                  teshë – tašyti

                  trashë – trašùs

                  trys – truniù



                  thaj – sausas

                  thekë – šakà

                  thirr – širvas

                  thjermë – širmas

                  thnegël – angis



                  ujk – vilkas



                  vang, vëng – vìngis

                  vdes – rekù

                  verzë – varle

                  vesh – ausis

                  vilas – su-valyti

                  vjehërr – šuras

                  vjel – valyti

                  vjerr – veriù

                  vjeshtë – su-valyti

                  vonë – vojus



                  zorrë – žarna

                  zot – viešpats

                  zverk – veriù

                  zvjerdh – veržiù


                  The cited lexical concordances are apparently not the only ones.

                  At first glance, some Lithuanian words do not seem to have anything to do with Albanian words. As an example, we mention rrag - srùoga, fryj - sprugstu and zot - viešpats. But, if we compare the Lithuanian equivalent with the proto-Albanian form *srauga - srùoga, *sprugnja - sprugstu and *w(i)tšpati - viešpats, we will see that we are dealing with the same words.



                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                    By the way the Suda refers to these people
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania
                    Could you please elaborate?

                    In another Suda version it refers to Albanians as an Italian people. I don't know if "this error" was due to a copying error or if it was intentional?

                    Comment

                    • Amphipolis
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 1328

                      These are the "Gallic" (more correctly) Galatian people and where the (Eastern) Galatia was.



                      I had found an essay having ALL references to Albanian in chronological order (including even women with the name Albania), but (I'm sorry) I can't locate it anymore. It was clear that all early references to Albania (starting from classical antiquity and all the way to Suida which is 1100 AD) refered to this "Albania" of Asia.

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        1929, Serbian author Glisha Elezovic on the Islamic Stories on the Arabic origin: Albanians, Lazians, Abazgians and Circassians.


                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          Sorin Paliga about the origins of Albanians (2014):

                          One more detail, hopefully relevant: the Albanians are also the heirs of those Sclaveni of the 6th century, as proved by ethnonym shqipe 'Albanian‘, shqip (adj.), see a more detailed discussion in Paliga and Teodor 2009: 80-84. To add here the brief discussion in the etymological dictionary of Albanian by Vladimir Orel (1998). Other research in the field also proves what we wrote in Paliga and Teodor 2009, but also earlier: Alb. Shqipe, Shqiptar etc. also reflects a late, post-classical form sclavus, a variant *skljab being reconstructable for Albanian. Orel (1998: 434) assumes that shqipe would be a calque after the Slavic parallel slověne ‗Slavs‘ as derived from slovo ‗word‘, in Albanian shqipoj ‗to speak clearly = to speak in our language‘ – Shqipe, Shqiptar. Thus put, the whole issue has no sense. It is not the first and last time when speakers of a given language associate ‗speaking in their own language‘ with the idea ‗to speak clearly‘, i.e. ‗to speak in a language we can understand‘. That was the motivation of the parallel slověne – slovo, also magyar ‗Hungarian‘ – magyaráz(ni) ‗to speak clearly‘ (= to speak in our langue), shqipe ‗Albanian‘ – shqipoj ‗to speak clearly‘ etc. Therefore, the parallel shqipe – shqipoj cannot be based on a calque, this is difficult to reconstruct at a popular level in those times or later; this is an internal, logical derivation based on the obvious and frequently attested reality ‗ours speak a language we can understand‘ versus ‗the others, who speak a language we cannot understand‘ = they are dumb (cf. Slavic něm- ‗dumb‘ used for referring to the němьcь, lit. ‗the dumb ones‘) or speak with a stutter (cf. Greek barbaros, lit. ‗those who stutter‘) etc. Such extralinguistic realities make part of a correct interpretation of the facts, too.

                          The Albanians are, therefore, another ‗Sclavenic group‘, but – we cannot be very far from reality – of Thracian origin, most probably of Carpian origin, as I. I. Russu brilliantly suggested as early as 1982. Unfortunately, it was difficult to have a serious debate of his hypothesis in those days1 . They moved NEXT TO the Slavs proprie dictu, but not melting into their groups. This proves that the FIRST Slavic move occurred indeed from north to south following the courses of Siret and Prut rivers, then crossing the Danube. Perhaps the Proto-Albanians preceded the Slavic movement, this explaining why they settled in the remotest location, beyond the extremity of the southwest Slavs. They were also Sclaveni, post-classical colloquial form sclavi > Romanian șchiau, șchei, Albanian shqipe. For the Byzantines, they were Sclaveni, Sklavenoi, the new enemies coming from the north. We may be sure that, at the beginning at least, the Byzantines made no linguistic difference between the Proto-Albanians and the rest of the Sclaveni, they were all foreign enemies. disregarding the language they spoke.

                          In the preface of his work, Orel (1998: X) assumes that the Albanian homeland may be located in Dacia Ripensis, specifically the Beskydy, Polish Bieszczady mountains. The Proto‑ Albanians had, beyond any doubt, a more northern origin, and we cannot hesitate to assume a homeland beyond the Danube. It is yet impossible to accept the area suggested by Orel, as there is no archaeological proof or any other reasonable proof, of any kind, allowing to accept the Beskydy as the Proto-Albanian homeland. The obvious similarities between Romanian and Albanian, but also the differences, show that there must have been a vicinity, which must have been, precisely, the Moldavian plain and the East Carpathians, with intrusions in the Transylvanian plateau after the Roman withdrawal in 274. This location does indeed make sense, and is supported by all the documents regarding the ‗Carpian issue‘ after the Roman conquest of Dacia in 105-106.



                          Paliga is a supporter of the northern Balkan (Balkan-Carpathian, Transdanubian) theory of the origin of Albanians. Contrary to Orel's hypotheses about the Beskids, but on the verge of his thoughts, Paliga sees the primordial area of the proto-Albanian language in the Moldavian plain, beyond the eastern Carpathians; they entered Erdely/Transylvania during the Roman withdrawal in 274 AD. Their origin is specifically related to the Carps.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            URL:


                            "1939 UK Foreign Office report on Albania is a fascinating document. It lists the prominent people, one of whom is Albanianised/assimilated "Kutzo-Vlach" (Aromanian) Dimitri Beratti..."

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                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              URL:


                              1903 US FRONT PAGE STORY: "Albanian bands descended upon town of Okhrida [Ohrid] situated on east banks of lake of that name, captured it & proceeded to put to the sword all the Christians. There was a terrible slaughter, the people defending themselves as best they could"

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                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332



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