Macedonia and the European Union

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader
Sweden is in the EU: look at their economic situation.

Danmark too: Look at their inflation

Ditto for Germany, Austria, Netherlands.


How about some objectivity and the fact that there are 27 EU members? You just counted 5.

RTG said:

In fact, what you are stating is a compelling argument that nothing changes once you get into the EU.

Shed some more light on what you mean? What does not change or contribute if you're an EU member?

The above countries are part of EU - Some people are less than objective when speaking of economic performance of EU members. They mention only Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria and Greece.


.

[Rogi]

CT,

Given that the "EU standards and requirements" which you seem to hold on a pedestal, are the benchmarks that Macedonia's economy must meet in order to be ready for EU membership, what are the benefits, at that point, of joining the EU?

The question of whether a hypothetically immediate EU membership will benefit Macedonia economically, is an easy one - it will be disastrous for Macedonia.

The question you seem to be asking is whether EU membership will benefit Macedonia in a decade from now, when Macedonia's economy meets those standards and requirements you prize and is capable of competing with the EU, so as to be ready to compete with the EU from within. At that point, the question is, what is the economic benefit of membership there on in?

Since your question is based on such a hypothetical scenario which takes place a decade from now, nobody can purport to know the answer, it would all be speculation and as much as previous examples of membership may provide some level of insight, nobody knows what the world will look like in a decade, let alone specific economic benefits of a trade union come political union.

[Risto the Great]

RTG said:



Shed some more light on what you mean? What does not change or contribute if you're an EU member?

The above countries are part of EU - Some people are less than objective when speaking of economic performance of EU members. They mention only Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria and Greece.


.

I was indicating that the countries that were doing well economically were already good before they went in. The ones that are rubbish now, were rubbish went they went in as well.

[Onur]

Passport controls and border checks are returning in Europe after 10 years of free-travel policy;

Europe forced to propose passport controls in Schengen zone

Passport-free travel across the "Schengen" area, which does not include Britain or Ireland, has come under unprecedented pressure after Italy last month gave residence permits to over 25,000 Arab migrants allowing them unfettered access to rest of the EU.

France, the likely destination of the mainly French-speaking Tunisian immigrants, responded by temporarily closing a key railway frontier with Italy and by introducing tough extra checks for papers on immigrants.

"It may be necessary to foresee the temporary reintroduction of limited internal border controls under very exceptional circumstances," said Cecilia Malmstroem, the EU's internal affairs commissioner.

"The European Commission feels it should be a community mechanism not unilateral and there should be very clear conditions."

The Swedish commissioner insisted that even though border controls might be temporarily coming back to deal with an wave of immigrants from North Africa, it would not become the norm over the next few years.

"The free movement of people across European borders is a major achievement which must not be reversed," she insisted.

The proposals will be submitted to an emergency meeting of EU interior ministers on May 12 before what are expected to be bad tempered discussions on immigration between European leaders at a Brussels summit on June 24.

EU governments are unlikely to agree to the commission's rethink because it will give Brussels the power to decide which circumstances are "exceptional", removing the decision to reintroduce border controls from national capitals.


The police in Norway, a member of the Schengen zone even though it is not an EU member, on Wednesday complained that passport-free travel had led to a crime wave in Nordic countries.

"Open borders in Europe have led to a situation where 80 per cent of crimes committed in Norway and other Nordic states are carried out by criminals who are either from the Baltic states or are strongly linked to the organised crime in the Baltic states," said Egil Haaland, the president of the Norwegian police association.

"Open borders have became a big problem for us."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ngen-zone.html

Denmark announces decision to reintroduce border controls ahead of Schengen meeting

The new controls will come into force within two to three weeks, according to Claus Hjort Frederiksen, the finance minister.

Because Denmark is a member of Europe's visa-free Schengen area, it cannot reinstate full frontier controls, and will still follow European Union rules with its current plan to station customs officers permanently at borders to conduct random checks on vehicles.

"Everything will take place within the limits of Schengen," the minister said.

"Over the past few years we have seen an increase in trans-border crime, and this is designed to curb the problem. We will be building new facilities at the Danish-German border, with new electronic equipment and number-plate identifiers," he said.

The minister added Denmark wanted Danish customs officers to be permanently present at the Oeresund Bridge that links Denmark and Sweden.

The idea of controls at borders in Denmark was pressed by the far-right Danish People's Party and its head Pia Kjaersgaard, who argued that it would counter illegal immigration and organised crime. The People's Party has been a key ally of the centre-right government since 2001.

EU interior ministers will today [Thu] meet in Brussels to debate proposals for restoring temporary border controls within the visa-free zone.

Denmark thus went ahead with tighter border controls before a possible EU decision on the matter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-meeting.html

[Risto the Great]

In the interest of the EU

http://www.thenewage.co.za/17777-1020-53-Hungary_pledges_support_for_Macedonia's_EU_entry

Hungary pledges support for Macedonia's EU entry

Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban on Thursday pledged his support for the early opening of European Union accession talks with Macedonia, blocked for six years over a name dispute with Greece.

"Hungary as a (rotating) chairman of the EU presidency will continue to have the start of talks with Macedonia at the top of the agenda," Orban said after a meeting with his Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski.

Macedonia has the status of member candidate since January 2005, but because of Greek objections over its name the country's entry into the EU and NATO is blocked.

Orban stressed that "this unnatural state should be resolved and Macedonia which has six years of candidate status should become a member as soon as possible".

"There is no reason for someone to stop a country from becoming a part of Europe. Nothing will be damaged if the accession talks start," he added. Orban insisted he was not taking sides in the long-running name row.

"It is my job to promote the interest of Europe, and the interest of the European Union is that Macedonia becomes a member as soon as possible," he said.

Gruevski said Orban's visit to Skopje was "a strong political signal that the Hungarian presidency is effectively devoted to continuing the process of European enlargement."

Macedonia has been at loggerheads with Greece since it proclaimed independence from the former Yugoslavia in 1991.

Greece, which has a northern province called Macedonia, says that the use of the same name by its neighbour implies a claim on Greek territory.

Not that I care terribly about Hungary's support. But what is clear is the vigour with which the EU seems to be presently applying in relation to the path of entry for Macedonia.

So, what do we all think is in it for the EU to have Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) urgently placed in the A (or EU) Team?

Sorry for writing Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) but it seems this is a forgone conclusion at the moment and Macedonians will probably claim a victory about the sizing of "Skopje". I can imagine it now and rely on the way Macedonians appear to have embraced the new flag.

[fyrOM]

So, what do we all think is in it for the EU to have Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) urgently placed in the A (or EU) Team?

Basically, security on investment, kind of like you would spend more on a girl knowing she was going to become your wife than someone you just met. The EU has invested heavily in infrastructure and silently given the nod to private investors that Macedonia will enjoy favorable tax/import duty considerations as a EU Member. To not have Macedonia in the EU means not all the benefit of that investment will flow back to them. As it stands, their investments are relying on a promise or intent and not entirely secure.


Gee RTG, it was quick off the mark to delete the previous post that said the article is from a South African newspaper and that it's good to see interest in Macedonia is so widespread. By the way Vest, IDIVIDI, MIA, and MINA to name a few carried the same story.

Strange you would look to South Africa - any other interests there.

[Risto the Great]

Basically, security on investment, kind of like you would spend more on a girl knowing she was going to become your wife than someone you just met. The EU has invested heavily in infrastructure and silently given the nod to private investors that Macedonia will enjoy favorable tax/import duty considerations as a EU Member. To not have Macedonia in the EU means not all the benefit of that investment will flow back to them. As it stands, their investments are relying on a promise or intent and not entirely secure.

1. What investments?
2. Is it more appropriate to call them loans?
3. What promises or intent are you referring to?
4. The tax/import duty considerations are of no benefit to the EU. You are saying Macedonia will benefit from them. The EU simply gets less money.
5. Is the EU forcing Macedonia to change its name equivalent to receiving an engagement ring?
6. You think the EU is looking for a marriage, I think the EU is looking for a quick sleazy one.

Gee RTG, it was quick off the mark to delete the previous post that said the article is from a South African newspaper and that it's good to see interest in Macedonia is so widespread. By the way Vest, IDIVIDI, MIA, and MINA to name a few carried the same story.

Strange you would look to South Africa - any other interests there.

It was the first of many links with the same message and I have no desire to entertain your foolery on the issue.

[Rogi]

fyrOM,

Google news. Search for Macedonia. Sort by date (latest). Simple, really.

[Volk]

EU wants its south eastern border stable, if we are called Skopje or Martians they have zero care... Only Macedonians should care

[fyrOM]

1. What investments?

Oh, Gees, TRG, am I supposed to have a list of all the companies and projects - the way you make it sound, nothing at all has happened.

2. Is it more appropriate to call them loans?

Those that are loans are cheap loans, and then there are grants and subsidies - so no, it's not all been loans.

3. What promises or intent are you referring to?

That Macedonia will become a member of the EU and NATO. Macedonia has always said they want to be ie promise/intent.

4. The tax/import duty considerations are of no benefit to the EU. You are saying Macedonia will benefit from them. The EU simply gets less money.

Gees RTG, you once said you were an accountant - this question shouldn't be coming from you.
Companies all around the world don't pay the company tax rate if they employ a lot of people - relying on negotiating their tax rate taking into account increased payroll tax and their employes' personal tax into the mix going to the government, likewise what the EU misses on stinging companies/goods in duty from Macedonia the Western companies who invest in Macedonia use the cheaper labor ect cost and the low/no duty to boost their profits and enrich the Western investors which swings back to the EU - seriously?

By the way, you once said you might hirer me to do the taxes for some of your clients who want 2 + 2 to equal five - or are they already getting that? or 7 or 3 or whatever number you finger hits the keyboard first?

5. Is the EU forcing Macedonia to change its name equivalent to receiving an engagement ring?

I've said it before - the West/EU really don't give a flying F if Macedonia is called Macedonia or Mars or whatever as long as they are in the EU.

The 'easiest' solution for them is if a suitable name can be found, and if Macedonia trips-up someway, as far as they see it, all the better, but as can be seen from many MEPs and countries that support Macedonia, they would also be very happy to see Macedonia called Macedonia - the how to do it part is the stickler - remember Veto and unanimous decision rules. There were even rumblings of re-drafting their rules to change the unanimous bit so bilateral issues (not just in Macedonia's case) don't cause problems.

6. You think the EU is looking for a marriage, I think the EU is looking for a quick sleazy one.

Whatever gave you that idea! The EU have been all about the long-term Europe, but like in many marriages, the partnership is not exactly equal and many partners choose to exploit this difference (not that I am necessarily saying it's a good thing, just that it is a reality of life).

Even (South) Africans get it that we want to be Macedonia and that the EU is a long-term reality - or don't you read Afrikaans, I thought you did seeing you skipped the obvious Macedonian news out-lets in preference to news from South Africa regarding Macedonia, or was it the SA part that got you confused thinking it was South Australia?

[George S.]

Right on volk the eu is there & doing it for it's self interests.People should note & see that the eu doesn't really care for macedonia.If it did it would not impose silly prerequisites when it allready complies.Anyway it's on the greeks side so it's totally partial.
I agree with RTG's 6 points they are valid when one looks to the real hiden agenda.You don't think that membership to eu will not have other strings attached & conditions imposed along the way.They will make the road so unberable that macedonia will wonder how it ever joined.

[julie]

Fyrom "the suitable name to be found"
MACEDONIA!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fyrOM]

Fyrom "the suitable name to be found"
MACEDONIA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be alarmed, Julie, it's all just doublespeak...
Post082

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5490&page=9

Probably because there is no such name. By wording their answer as such it is a polite/political doublespeak not to say the word No to the, "are you looking for a solution?", question and hence keep the, "as long as you are looking for a solution the EU will keep investing/subsedising in Macedonia" going - say No and you get a No back. So in reality you will never hear of such a name.

[fyrOM]

For anyone...
I know a lot of people see all the parts of Macedonia as ours, which is true, but do you really see a united Macedonia any time soon, and if so, how do you see this happen? - there is no '99 year clause' in any of the treaties concerning Macedonia. Simply saying, "it's mine" will get a, "make me", response from all the occupiers, so how do you make them, because I don't see the USA or anyone doing a "Operation Shock and Awe" on Greece or any of the other occupiers? This is the reality of where we are up to, whether we like it or not.

If you say you don't see a united Macedonia any time soon, them what future do you see for RoM and the occupied parts and why and how do we get there?

[Risto the Great]

fyrOM, thank you for the prominent display of superficiality. I will call upon you again when I need to learn nothing about a subject but want to get the "vibe" of what people are trying to give off.