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Old 04-02-2019, 08:53 PM   #5951
Tomche Makedonche
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Its high five time

Quote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...KCN1RE1LB?il=0

Selfies and air pact mark North Macedonia-Greece detente

SKOPJE (Reuters) - The leaders of Greece and North Macedonia hugged, took selfies and signed a new agreement for air patrols on Wednesday in a display of newly-friendly relations since a nearly three-decade name dispute was settled earlier this year.

North Macedonia’s Prime Minister Zoran Zaev was all smiles as his counterpart Alexis Tsipras became the first Greek prime minister to pay an official visit to the ex-Yugoslav republic since it declared independence in 1991.

The pair struck a deal last year for Macedonia to be re-named North Macedonia - satisfying Greece’s longstanding complaint over an implied claim to its province also called Macedonia - and the change came into force in January.

The deal has opened the way for North Macedonia to seek membership of the European Union and NATO blocs.

Upon arrival, Tsipras and Zaev snapped selfies, while the Greek leader’s wife was presented with flowers.

The two prime ministers discussed infrastructure projects including improving a railway between the Macedonian capital Skopje and Greek port Thessaloniki

“We are writing history,” Zaev said.

“You are looking at two neighbors, friendly people who have shown Europe and the entire world that with brave decisions and good wishes for togetherness, something that was impossible yesterday has become reality today.”

“SILLY BEHAVIOR STOPS”

They agreed to cooperate in their defense industries, cyber protection and military intelligence.

Macedonia, which has no fighter jets, will also allow Greece to patrol its skies for the first time.

Calling Zaev his “dearest friend”, Tsipras said it was time to make up for nearly three “lost” decades.

“For years, every time I would go to Europe with the government aircraft ... I noticed that the pilot made a deviation so it wouldn’t enter the airspace of FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic Macedonia),” he said.

“This silly behavior now stops .. Not only won’t we make deviations, but we might also take a stroll to say hello.”

Zaev reiterated that NATO and EU membership were the priorities for his tiny Balkan state. “But we also want cooperation with Russia, China and the Eastern world,” he said.

The dispute had been on the United Nations’ agenda ever since the former Yugoslavia broke up in 1991 and Greece, swept up by nationalist rage, had slapped a short-lived trade embargo on the landlocked state.

EU commissioner for enlargement Johannes Hahn tweeted his congratulations, praising the pair for putting citizens and the region first. “Their courage and vision is a signal to the rest of South East Europe that hard nuts can be cracked,” he said.

Quote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...orth-macedonia

Greek PM stops for selfie on goodwill trip to North Macedonia

Alexis Tsipras talks of bridge building on first official visit after end of decades-long dispute

In a historic trip replete with bear hugs, red carpets, selfies and smiles, the Greek prime minister has attempted to bury the hatchet with the newly named North Macedonia, declaring the start of a new “narrative” between the once-hostile neighbouring states.

Making the first official visit by a Greek premier to the former Yugoslav republic since it declared independence in 1991, Alexis Tsipras arrived in Skopje two months after the Athens parliament ratified a landmark accord that changed the name of the Balkan country, which was previously known as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

From the outset it was friendship – and the economy – that set the tone of Tsipras’s visit.

“We are here to build bridges and break down walls,” Tsipras announced at a joint press conference held alongside his counterpart, Zoran Zaev. “This is a historic moment not only for our countries, but for the Balkans and Europe.”

After almost 30 years of division, the two nations needed to move fast “to cover lost ground”, he said. Walking into Skopje’s main government building, the men posed for selfies amid spontaneous applause from politicians around them.

Under a pact signed last summer, the republic agreed to add the geographical qualifier “North” to its name to appease longstanding fears in Athens of territorial claims over the region of Macedonia in northern Greece.

“This agreement is an example to be mimicked by all,” said Zaev, hailing the one-day visit as a historic milestone.

“We showed Europe and the world that with bold decisions anything is possible … Greece is our friend now, she will remain our friend and will become an even greater friend in the future.”

But while the accord received widespread praise abroad – welcomed as a rare feelgood moment for Europe – it has enraged nationalists in both countries.

Emotion has run especially high in areas of northern Greece bordering North Macedonia, where opponents have accused Tsipras’s government of betrayal.

With both leaders facing elections this year – North Macedonia holds presidential polls on 21 April, while Greece will have general elections by October at the latest – the emphasis was on the benefits the two countries stand to gain from a deal that has helped to reshape the once war-torn Balkan peninsula.

Before the accord was brokered, Greece had vetoed its northern neighbour’s bid to launch membership talks with both Nato and the European Union – a move that had frustrated western leaders concerned by perceived Russian meddling in the strategically important region.

In a day of fence-building, the focus was on consolidating ties in concrete ways. As part of a national action plan, discussed in the first high-level cooperation council during the visit, everything from civil aviation to digital policy and the rewording of history books was broached.

“For years, every time I would go to Europe with the government aircraft ... I noticed that the pilot made a deviation so it wouldn’t enter the airspace of FYROM [Former Yugoslav Republic Macedonia],” said Tsipras. “This silly behaviour now stops ... Not only won’t we make deviations, but we might also take a stroll to say hello.”

Ten cabinet ministers, accompanying Tsipras on the trip, signed a slew of deals in the fields of economy, defence, infrastructure and transport. Tsipras also announced that Greece would move immediately to establish an embassy in Skopje.

“Soon, even those who oppose [the deal] will begin to see its positive effects,” said Zaev, who before the visit said he expected new Greek investments in North Macedonia to exceed €500m (£430m).

In recognition of the deal, Zaev and Tsipras have been nominated for this year’s Nobel peace prize.

But while insisting that a lot had been achieved in a remarkably short time, Tsipras conceded that the agreement – which gives North Macedonia five years to change its name at home and abroad – would almost certainly “be tested in critical areas as time goes by”.

Among Greek critics’ greatest grievances is the theft of ancient figures, not least the Macedonian hero, Alexander the Great, by the Balkan state.

In a nod to them, Tsipras said that while ancient Greek culture was “universal”, he looked forward to a time when the origins and inspiration behind the plethora of statues and monuments around Skopje was finally made clear.
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Old 04-02-2019, 09:20 PM   #5952
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When the headline about the selfie came up on my google news feed I think I blacked out with rage for a second. If I were to have witnessed it in front of my eyes I don't think I would have been able to control myself.

He should have been shot dead on the spot, end of story.
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Old 04-02-2019, 09:56 PM   #5953
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Do you think Zajko corrected Tsipras when he refered to Severna as FYROM?
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Old 04-02-2019, 10:10 PM   #5954
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Zaev reiterated that NATO and EU membership were the priorities for his tiny Balkan state. “But we also want cooperation with Russia, China and the Eastern world,” he said.
And unicorns too.
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Old 04-02-2019, 10:13 PM   #5955
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Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
Do you think Zajko corrected Tsipras when he refered to Severna as FYROM?
That's complicated. It depends on whether he strategically employed the use of a butt plug immediately preceding the meeting. If yes, his reaming by Tsipras wouldn't have been so unbearable and he may have heard him saying it instead of wincing and trying to think of EU dollars in Panama.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:35 AM   #5956
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I hate to say it but I am finding that I am starting to disassociate myself more and more with the zombies of what was once Macedonia. Truth be told, the disenchantment is absolutely suffocating and I've lost all hope in the people living there. Do I bother even asking anymore - Why are they not reacting to this?

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Responding to a journalist's question regarding which monuments will be renamed and marked as monuments from Ancient Greece, Government spokesman Mile Boshnjakovski said today that a commission will be formed that will take six months to determine which monuments from ancient Macedonia will be renamed and presented as part of the Hellenic history.

-The commission will undertake an assessment of the monuments within a period of six months and, some of those located in the center of Skopje, will get a new name, such as "The Warrior of the Horse" will have a plaque on which will be inscribed "Alexander the Great" and that he belongs to the Hellenic (Greek ancient) history - said Boshnjakovski.
https://vesti.mk/read/article/https%...not-na-konj%2F
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:40 AM   #5957
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Originally Posted by Karposh View Post
I hate to say it but I am finding that I am starting to disassociate myself more and more with the zombies of what was once Macedonia. Truth be told, the disenchantment is absolutely suffocating and I've lost all hope in the people living there. Do I bother even asking anymore - Why are they not reacting to this?
Half of the country is totally fucked, it's like a form of stockholm syndrome on a national scale, Zaev's SDS is butt fucking the identity of Macedonia on a daily basis and there's no shortage of 'supporters' blowing sunshine up Zaev's arse.

During the Tsipras visit, the Macedonian side even avoided the use of the Macedonian national anthem, so that they wouldn't 'offend' their guest...what a spineless, subservient, self hating pack of turds.
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:52 PM   #5958
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https://www.dw.com/cda/en/north-mace...des/a-48194331

North Macedonia name change both heals and divides

The Prespa Agreement changing the country's name officially settled decades of bitter dispute between Skopje and Athens. But Teri Schultz found domestic debate still going strong.

In the Republic of North Macedonia, many people still trip over their tongues, trying to get used to what they must now call their country.
Well, not everyone is trying.

"Not me —*not me. No, not at all," avowed former*diplomat Martin Trenevski, who served as his nation's envoy to Sweden, Canada and NATO while*it was provisionally called the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM). Trenevski retired before the current government accepted the Prespa Agreement and he refuses to comply with the name change, albeit just in a personal capacity. "Luckily I'm a pensioner now," he said with a chuckle, "so I don't have to —*and I will not."

His wife, sitting at the other end of their dinner table, shakes her head. Vasilka Poposka was Skopje's ambassador to Austria as the Prespa Agreement was in its final stages of negotiation. She often facilitated those meetings and saw up close just how high the stakes were. "There was no other way, for sure," she said with conviction. "I saw that it was not easy for both sides, for the Greeks and for our side. I'm sure that nobody's happy with this, but we knew it that we have to do this."*

"Maybe I'm more pragmatic," she shrugged. "'North Macedonia' for me is not so bad," she added.

There goes the (Vergina) sun

But it's not only the name that has to change, and that's something both former diplomats acknowledge their citizens —*and even themselves —*haven't quite grasped completely yet. National monuments will have new placards clarifying that there are different interpretations of historical claims.*Everyone's worried about what they can and can't do under the new agreement, how strictly it will be interpreted and what symbols could be deemed a violation.

Additionally, the agreement stipulates the removal of the iconic Vergina Sun from public use in the Republic of Macedonia; a committee will review school textbooks, historical documents and maps in both countries to mandate removal of content deemed "irredentist,"*demanding the restoration of their country.

That's a problem for Trenevski. With obvious emotion, he gestured around his art-adorned home in downtown Skopje. A former journalist and author of several history books, he feels Prespa is wiping out large parts of his country's past with the required changes. "I have on the wall a map from the early 17th century," he explained. "It says Macedonia! But in the new editions of history books, it should be something else."

He's referring to the part of the Prespa Agreement that says a joint committee of interdisciplinary experts will be examining textbooks, teaching guides, atlases and other official documents to see what should be changed. Skopje already agreed to change the flag it used from 1992 to 1995 because Athens*insisted the Vergina Sun symbol it contained is Greek.

Paying for Prespa*

Trenevski believes the price for Prespa was too high. "We should have grasped the opportunity in making a better deal," he insisted.

Poposka, for her part, said it was made clear to her in no uncertain terms that if her government scuttled this agreement the "deep freeze could go deeper." She said everyone in the international community had wanted to help Skopje but only if it helped itself. "The price is big," she agreed, "but we have to live with this."

And there were immediate rewards. The agreement opened the long-shut door to NATO, which Trenevski himself had pounded on for years in his Brussels posting. Now North Macedonians, especially the younger generations, are hoping the European Union opens its arms, too, and offers the country a smooth path to membership.

Passport to the past

The couple's daughter and her Canadian husband recently returned to live in North Macedonia, fulfilling their plans to raise a family there with the birth of their daughter, Sophia, in October. Holding her giggling baby, Galena Cunningham said she views the situation with mixed feelings.

Once the Prespa Agreement was approved and the name change was imminent, the Cunninghams rushed to apply for Sophia's passport so that it would say "Republic of Macedonia" and not "North Macedonia." They succeeded with only five days to spare. "Sentimentally, I really wanted at least her first passport to be from the Republic of Macedonia," Cunningham said. "It's okay that her next passport is going to be*North Macedonia, but this does mean a lot to me."

At the same time, she acknowledged there was no other way to break out of North Macedonia's rut. "This was the only step forward," she said. "We're not magically going to be the same as the Western countries, but this is one step closer." After the last meeting with North Macedonia's leaders, EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini chief said it is still the bloc's*desire —*and plan — to open*negotiations*with Skopje this year.

Cunningham believes that if that better future starts to become clear, some people will still be upset with the mandated changes in signs, monuments, textbooks and other federally-funded items, but that will be a minority. "The name change was the biggest issue with people," she said. "But since that was accepted so well then I think everything will be okay."

Except perhaps at her parents' house, where her father continues to lament the conditions of Prespa. "If I ask for my birth certificate it will say that I was born ... in North Macedonia, which is not the case!" lamented TrenevskI. "I was born in the Republic of Macedonia."
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:42 PM   #5959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
https://www.dw.com/cda/en/north-mace...des/a-48194331

North Macedonia name change both heals and divides

The Prespa Agreement changing the country's name officially settled decades of bitter dispute between Skopje and Athens. But Teri Schultz found domestic debate still going strong.

In the Republic of North Macedonia, many people still trip over their tongues, trying to get used to what they must now call their country.
Well, not everyone is trying.

"Not me —*not me. No, not at all," avowed former*diplomat Martin Trenevski, who served as his nation's envoy to Sweden, Canada and NATO while*it was provisionally called the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM). Trenevski retired before the current government accepted the Prespa Agreement and he refuses to comply with the name change, albeit just in a personal capacity. "Luckily I'm a pensioner now," he said with a chuckle, "so I don't have to —*and I will not."

His wife, sitting at the other end of their dinner table, shakes her head. Vasilka Poposka was Skopje's ambassador to Austria as the Prespa Agreement was in its final stages of negotiation. She often facilitated those meetings and saw up close just how high the stakes were. "There was no other way, for sure," she said with conviction. "I saw that it was not easy for both sides, for the Greeks and for our side. I'm sure that nobody's happy with this, but we knew it that we have to do this."*

"Maybe I'm more pragmatic," she shrugged. "'North Macedonia' for me is not so bad," she added.

There goes the (Vergina) sun

But it's not only the name that has to change, and that's something both former diplomats acknowledge their citizens —*and even themselves —*haven't quite grasped completely yet. National monuments will have new placards clarifying that there are different interpretations of historical claims.*Everyone's worried about what they can and can't do under the new agreement, how strictly it will be interpreted and what symbols could be deemed a violation.

Additionally, the agreement stipulates the removal of the iconic Vergina Sun from public use in the Republic of Macedonia; a committee will review school textbooks, historical documents and maps in both countries to mandate removal of content deemed "irredentist,"*demanding the restoration of their country.

That's a problem for Trenevski. With obvious emotion, he gestured around his art-adorned home in downtown Skopje. A former journalist and author of several history books, he feels Prespa is wiping out large parts of his country's past with the required changes. "I have on the wall a map from the early 17th century," he explained. "It says Macedonia! But in the new editions of history books, it should be something else."

He's referring to the part of the Prespa Agreement that says a joint committee of interdisciplinary experts will be examining textbooks, teaching guides, atlases and other official documents to see what should be changed. Skopje already agreed to change the flag it used from 1992 to 1995 because Athens*insisted the Vergina Sun symbol it contained is Greek.

Paying for Prespa*

Trenevski believes the price for Prespa was too high. "We should have grasped the opportunity in making a better deal," he insisted.

Poposka, for her part, said it was made clear to her in no uncertain terms that if her government scuttled this agreement the "deep freeze could go deeper." She said everyone in the international community had wanted to help Skopje but only if it helped itself. "The price is big," she agreed, "but we have to live with this."

And there were immediate rewards. The agreement opened the long-shut door to NATO, which Trenevski himself had pounded on for years in his Brussels posting. Now North Macedonians, especially the younger generations, are hoping the European Union opens its arms, too, and offers the country a smooth path to membership.

Passport to the past

The couple's daughter and her Canadian husband recently returned to live in North Macedonia, fulfilling their plans to raise a family there with the birth of their daughter, Sophia, in October. Holding her giggling baby, Galena Cunningham said she views the situation with mixed feelings.

Once the Prespa Agreement was approved and the name change was imminent, the Cunninghams rushed to apply for Sophia's passport so that it would say "Republic of Macedonia" and not "North Macedonia." They succeeded with only five days to spare. "Sentimentally, I really wanted at least her first passport to be from the Republic of Macedonia," Cunningham said. "It's okay that her next passport is going to be*North Macedonia, but this does mean a lot to me."

At the same time, she acknowledged there was no other way to break out of North Macedonia's rut. "This was the only step forward," she said. "We're not magically going to be the same as the Western countries, but this is one step closer." After the last meeting with North Macedonia's leaders, EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini chief said it is still the bloc's*desire —*and plan — to open*negotiations*with Skopje this year.

Cunningham believes that if that better future starts to become clear, some people will still be upset with the mandated changes in signs, monuments, textbooks and other federally-funded items, but that will be a minority. "The name change was the biggest issue with people," she said. "But since that was accepted so well then I think everything will be okay."

Except perhaps at her parents' house, where her father continues to lament the conditions of Prespa. "If I ask for my birth certificate it will say that I was born ... in North Macedonia, which is not the case!" lamented TrenevskI. "I was born in the Republic of Macedonia."


This part made me laugh
Once the Prespa Agreement was approved and the name change was imminent, the Cunninghams rushed to apply for Sophia's passport so that it would say "Republic of Macedonia" and not "North Macedonia." They succeeded with only five days to spare. "Sentimentally, I really wanted at least her first passport to be from the Republic of Macedonia," Cunningham said. "It's okay that her next passport is going to be*North Macedonia, but this does mean a lot to me."

Typical brain dead, dead end Macedonian way of thinking. Rushing to get a republic of Macedonia passport so you can parade around as a patriotic, but its ok that in 5 months the country will be called Northern Macedonia and your history and symbols are wiped out.

My god Macedonians are short sighted low IQ idiots.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:46 PM   #5960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
https://www.dw.com/cda/en/north-mace...des/a-48194331

North Macedonia name change both heals and divides

The Prespa Agreement changing the country's name officially settled decades of bitter dispute between Skopje and Athens. But Teri Schultz found domestic debate still going strong.

In the Republic of North Macedonia, many people still trip over their tongues, trying to get used to what they must now call their country.
Well, not everyone is trying.

"Not me —*not me. No, not at all," avowed former*diplomat Martin Trenevski, who served as his nation's envoy to Sweden, Canada and NATO while*it was provisionally called the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM). Trenevski retired before the current government accepted the Prespa Agreement and he refuses to comply with the name change, albeit just in a personal capacity. "Luckily I'm a pensioner now," he said with a chuckle, "so I don't have to —*and I will not."

His wife, sitting at the other end of their dinner table, shakes her head. Vasilka Poposka was Skopje's ambassador to Austria as the Prespa Agreement was in its final stages of negotiation. She often facilitated those meetings and saw up close just how high the stakes were. "There was no other way, for sure," she said with conviction. "I saw that it was not easy for both sides, for the Greeks and for our side. I'm sure that nobody's happy with this, but we knew it that we have to do this."*

"Maybe I'm more pragmatic," she shrugged. "'North Macedonia' for me is not so bad," she added.

There goes the (Vergina) sun

But it's not only the name that has to change, and that's something both former diplomats acknowledge their citizens —*and even themselves —*haven't quite grasped completely yet. National monuments will have new placards clarifying that there are different interpretations of historical claims.*Everyone's worried about what they can and can't do under the new agreement, how strictly it will be interpreted and what symbols could be deemed a violation.

Additionally, the agreement stipulates the removal of the iconic Vergina Sun from public use in the Republic of Macedonia; a committee will review school textbooks, historical documents and maps in both countries to mandate removal of content deemed "irredentist,"*demanding the restoration of their country.

That's a problem for Trenevski. With obvious emotion, he gestured around his art-adorned home in downtown Skopje. A former journalist and author of several history books, he feels Prespa is wiping out large parts of his country's past with the required changes. "I have on the wall a map from the early 17th century," he explained. "It says Macedonia! But in the new editions of history books, it should be something else."

He's referring to the part of the Prespa Agreement that says a joint committee of interdisciplinary experts will be examining textbooks, teaching guides, atlases and other official documents to see what should be changed. Skopje already agreed to change the flag it used from 1992 to 1995 because Athens*insisted the Vergina Sun symbol it contained is Greek.

Paying for Prespa*

Trenevski believes the price for Prespa was too high. "We should have grasped the opportunity in making a better deal," he insisted.

Poposka, for her part, said it was made clear to her in no uncertain terms that if her government scuttled this agreement the "deep freeze could go deeper." She said everyone in the international community had wanted to help Skopje but only if it helped itself. "The price is big," she agreed, "but we have to live with this."

And there were immediate rewards. The agreement opened the long-shut door to NATO, which Trenevski himself had pounded on for years in his Brussels posting. Now North Macedonians, especially the younger generations, are hoping the European Union opens its arms, too, and offers the country a smooth path to membership.

Passport to the past

The couple's daughter and her Canadian husband recently returned to live in North Macedonia, fulfilling their plans to raise a family there with the birth of their daughter, Sophia, in October. Holding her giggling baby, Galena Cunningham said she views the situation with mixed feelings.

Once the Prespa Agreement was approved and the name change was imminent, the Cunninghams rushed to apply for Sophia's passport so that it would say "Republic of Macedonia" and not "North Macedonia." They succeeded with only five days to spare. "Sentimentally, I really wanted at least her first passport to be from the Republic of Macedonia," Cunningham said. "It's okay that her next passport is going to be*North Macedonia, but this does mean a lot to me."

At the same time, she acknowledged there was no other way to break out of North Macedonia's rut. "This was the only step forward," she said. "We're not magically going to be the same as the Western countries, but this is one step closer." After the last meeting with North Macedonia's leaders, EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini chief said it is still the bloc's*desire —*and plan — to open*negotiations*with Skopje this year.

Cunningham believes that if that better future starts to become clear, some people will still be upset with the mandated changes in signs, monuments, textbooks and other federally-funded items, but that will be a minority. "The name change was the biggest issue with people," she said. "But since that was accepted so well then I think everything will be okay."

Except perhaps at her parents' house, where her father continues to lament the conditions of Prespa. "If I ask for my birth certificate it will say that I was born ... in North Macedonia, which is not the case!" lamented TrenevskI. "I was born in the Republic of Macedonia."
Funny article. It pretty much sums up what is happening in Macedonia and the fact that people have pretty much accepted the Prespa agreement, saying its not all that bad.

Some crazy things these peopele are saying:


- I'm sure that nobody's happy with this, but we knew it that we have to do this."*"Maybe I'm more pragmatic," she shrugged. "'North Macedonia' for me is not so bad," she added.


- The name change was the biggest issue with people," she said. "But since that was accepted so well then I think everything will be okay."

There is only one smart thing this stupid peasant woman said and it was:
"She said everyone in the international community had wanted to help Skopje but only if it helped itself. "The price is big," she agreed, "but we have to live with this."
I strongly believe that if Macedonians where united from the beginning up until today they would have gotten more international support from the international community against the shiptars, against the greeks and maybe the prespa agreement wouldn’t have come out so embarrassing.
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igor janev, interim accord, ireland, macedonia, roger casement


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