Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-09-2016, 04:53 AM   #91
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,908
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

It was Macedonian. It was 500 years ago. There was no cleansing of our language. It was documented then and had not even changed after 500 years. Greeks can't say the same. And people who live where this Macedonian language was dominant and documented are now pretending they are nothing but pure Greek. How typical of Greeks to keep their skeletons so deep in their closets.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 06:35 AM   #92
Statitsa
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 40
Statitsa is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Generally speaking, NO language changes significantly in 400 or 500 years. At least that's my experience from Greek and English theatrical plays from the 1500s and 1600s. Kornaros, Chortatzis, Shakespeare and Marlowe are still performed unchanged and the modern audiences can follow
Sure, adult audiences with the ability to critically connect root words on the fly, or with a vast knowledge of the English lexicon might be able to follow along, but, the sentences presented in the document are intelligible to a modern four year old with a basic understanding of the Macedonian language. There's your difference.

Plus, if Shakespeare and the like were so readily understandable, there wouldn't be a need for the numerous "Shakespearean to Modern English translators available online, would there?

Last edited by Statitsa; 10-13-2016 at 05:05 AM.
Statitsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 07:29 AM   #93
Karposh
Member
 
Karposh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 674
Karposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statitsa View Post
Sure, young adult, to adult audiences with the ability to critically connect root words on the fly, or with a vast knowledge of the English lexicon might be able to follow along, but, the sentences presented in the document are intelligible to a modern four year old with a basic understanding of the Macedonian language. There's your difference.

Plus, if Shakespeare and the like were so readily understandable, there wouldn't be a need for the numerous "Shakespearean to Modern English translators available online, would there?
Absolutely. I was thinking that too. I did a quick Google search of the history of the English language and here’s a brief overview of what I found:

Shakespeare's complex sentence structures and use of now obsolete words lead many students to think they are reading Old or Middle English. In fact, Shakespeare's works are written in Early Modern English. Once you see a text of Old or Middle English you'll really appreciate how easy Shakespeare is to understand (well, relatively speaking). Take, for example, this passage from the most famous of all Old English works, Beowulf:
Hwät! we Gâr-Dena in geâr-dagum
þeód-cyninga þrym gefrunon,
hû þâ äðelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scêfing sceaðena þreátum.

(Translation)
Lo! the Spear-Danes' glory through splendid achievements
The folk-kings' former fame we have heard of,
How princes displayed then their prowess-in-battle.
Oft Scyld the Scefing from scathers in numbers...
Old English was spoken and written in Britain from the 5th century to the middle of the 11th century and is really closer to the Germanic mother tongue of the Anglo-Saxons.

With the arrival of the French-speaking Normans in 1066, Old English underwent dramatic changes and by 1350 it had evolved into Middle English. Middle English is easier but still looks like a foreign language much of the time. Here is an example from Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales, the most famous work in Middle English:

Ye seken lond and see for your wynnynges,
As wise folk ye knowen all th'estaat
Of regnes; ye been fadres of tydynges
And tales, bothe of pees and of debaat. (The Man of Law's Tale)

(Translation)
You seek land and sea for your winnings,
As wise folk you know all the estate
Of kingdoms; you be fathers of tidings,
And tales, both of peace and of debate.

By about 1450, Middle English was replaced with Early Modern English, the language of Shakespeare, which is almost identical to contemporary English.


Almost, if not for such Shakespearean terms as thou, thee, doth, thine, ye, thy etc. The Macedonian lexicon of the 16th century, which of course translates to the 1500’s, was exactly the same as that spoken today. It’s not “almost” the same but exactly the same. Like Statitsa said, you don’t have to be an expert in medieval languages…even a 4 year old Macedonian child can understand it.

The English language went through a metamorphosis from a purely Germanic language (Old English) to a heavily-French-influenced Middle English of the Middle Ages to Early Modern English (Shakespearean English) to the version I am communicating in now.

On top of that, England was a global super power for centuries with all the necessary institutions in place to preserve and record their treasured literature. Macedonian was, and I love using this term these days, a simple farmer language that was spoken by illiterate peasants and passed down from generation to generation orally.

The fact that it was recorded in Greek letters could only mean that either a patriarchate priest or a wealthy, Greek-educated Vlach wrote the verses in the lexicon. It’s highly unlikely an illiterate Macedonian peasant had such skills. That in itself makes it even more extraordinary – the possibility that someone whose native tongue was not Macedonian was able to record the exact speech of the Macedonians from over 500 years ago.
Karposh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 05:37 PM   #94
DraganOfStip
Senior Member
 
DraganOfStip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Malta
Posts: 1,253
DraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud of
Default

I don't know how accurate these videos are, but according to them contemporary English speakers wouldn't understand the English language spoken before the 1400's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxy6ZaMOq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8tEPXI25A
__________________
”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George Orwell

Last edited by DraganOfStip; 10-09-2016 at 05:43 PM.
DraganOfStip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 09:57 PM   #95
Spirit
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 116
Spirit is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraganOfStip View Post
I don't know how accurate these videos are, but according to them contemporary English speakers wouldn't understand the English language spoken before the 1400's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxy6ZaMOq8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8tEPXI25A
They wouldn't Dragan.
Though modern English evolved from Middle English (circa 1100-1400) and Middle English evolved from Old English (pre Norman Conquest 1066) modern English speakers would have trouble understanding Middle English and would not understand at all Old English
Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2016, 12:13 AM   #96
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,338
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

I can get the jist of Middle English and can make out Old English if I have some assistance but the language has defiantly changed a lot, which is owed to the politics of the time.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 11:33 PM   #97
maco2envy
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 286
maco2envy is on a distinguished road
Default

What are the implications of the Macedonian and Bulgarian languages having articles and a lack of any grammatical cases, while the rest the slavic languages have no articles and an average 7 grammatical cases?
See:

European countries that use articles:

*Bright Pink representing the use of only definite articles via suffix.

Number of grammatical cases:


Seems that we share this trait with most of the Western European languages, with the most noteworthy being English. From what I've heard indo-European had 9 grammatical cases and no articles whatsoever. So what could this mean? What makes us a special case?

Additionally, if this lexicon is real, it basically disproves the theory that all slavic languages were close to identical just over a few centuries ago...
maco2envy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 11:44 PM   #98
Amphipolis
Senior Member
 
Amphipolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,280
Amphipolis is on a distinguished road
Default

Old Church Slavonic had 7 cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar...ar#Case_system





===

Last edited by Amphipolis; 06-06-2017 at 11:48 PM.
Amphipolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:40 AM   #99
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,338
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Bump................................
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 02:08 AM   #100
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,908
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Very bumpable and still compelling.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
16th century, bogatsko, kastoria, kostur, kostursko, lexique macédonien, macedonia, macedonian language, macedonian lexicon, makedonski, makedonsko, vogatsiko


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump