Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > News and Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-02-2017, 07:03 AM   #691
Albo
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 304
Albo is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
the fundamental principles which define the nation and its' existential purpose
The existential purpose needs to be a reflection of the wants and needs of the population!

By granting Albanians wider use of Albanian and by greater decentralization (EU Laws) ( Which is basically what the "Joint Albanian party decleration" is) .. nobody is taking away from Macedonians the right to live exactly as they have been as Macedonians in any shape or form..

Even if the constitution is changed in the future and Albanian and Macedonian are officially equal at all levels.. what do Macedonians lose or how is their quality of life effected in any way...

Multi language use at all levels of government is common in many European and Balkan countries ..
It's not something that needs to be feared ..
Europe is based on cultural, linguistic and religious diversity..

I seriously don't understand the hysteria and fear that has been generated amongst the population.. It's totally unnecessary in my and every other Albanians eyes, not to mention the European officials who don't understand the fear and revolt against 25%-35% Of the population using their language at a wider official level..

Nobody is saying for Macedonians to replace Macedonian with Albanian or forcefully learn Albanian..

Why the fear??
Albo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 07:14 AM   #692
Karposh
Member
 
Karposh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 674
Karposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Nobody is saying for Macedonians to replace Macedonian with Albanian or forcefully learn Albanian..
Well that's very kind of the EU and the Albanians.
Karposh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 06:12 PM   #693
Redsun
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 409
Redsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud ofRedsun has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
The existential purpose needs to be a reflection of the wants and needs of the population!

By granting Albanians wider use of Albanian and by greater decentralization (EU Laws) ( Which is basically what the "Joint Albanian party decleration" is) .. nobody is taking away from Macedonians the right to live exactly as they have been as Macedonians in any shape or form..

Even if the constitution is changed in the future and Albanian and Macedonian are officially equal at all levels.. what do Macedonians lose or how is their quality of life effected in any way...

Multi language use at all levels of government is common in many European and Balkan countries ..
It's not something that needs to be feared ..
Europe is based on cultural, linguistic and religious diversity..

I seriously don't understand the hysteria and fear that has been generated amongst the population.. It's totally unnecessary in my and every other Albanians eyes, not to mention the European officials who don't understand the fear and revolt against 25%-35% Of the population using their language at a wider official level..

Nobody is saying for Macedonians to replace Macedonian with Albanian or forcefully learn Albanian..

Why the fear??

Europe is divided upon cultural, linguistic and religious differences.


You question "what do Macedonians lose", tell me "what do Macedonians gain"?

How will multi language within the government be of benefit to Macedonia? Why do you believe multi language in government is necessary? What is so necessary about it?

How will this be of advantage to the government and the nation.

Explain to me why you don't believe this will be an inconvenience because I cant see how it can be of any convenience, please explain.

It is totally unnecessary, what benefit will be gained by having a second language in government.
Redsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 09:48 PM   #694
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,908
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
The existential purpose needs to be a reflection of the wants and needs of the population!
You're saying the majority should dictate the terms. Bravo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
By granting Albanians wider use of Albanian and by greater decentralization (EU Laws) ( Which is basically what the "Joint Albanian party decleration" is) .. nobody is taking away from Macedonians the right to live exactly as they have been as Macedonians in any shape or form..

Even if the constitution is changed in the future and Albanian and Macedonian are officially equal at all levels.. what do Macedonians lose or how is their quality of life effected in any way...

Multi language use at all levels of government is common in many European and Balkan countries ..
It's not something that needs to be feared ..
Europe is based on cultural, linguistic and religious diversity..

I seriously don't understand the hysteria and fear that has been generated amongst the population.. It's totally unnecessary in my and every other Albanians eyes, not to mention the European officials who don't understand the fear and revolt against 25%-35% Of the population using their language at a wider official level..

Nobody is saying for Macedonians to replace Macedonian with Albanian or forcefully learn Albanian..

Why the fear??
Macedonians are losing the homeland of Macedonians. Albanians have a homeland that helps forge and affirm their identity in countries outside of Albania. Macedonia and Macedonians will not have this. All because of a very vocal minority that is useful to external powers.

Why the fear?

Lose Albania and then tell me what you are Albo.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 03:26 AM   #695
Rogi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,319
Rogi is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
The existential purpose needs to be a reflection of the wants and needs of the population!
Very interesting Albo. How much of the population? 20%, 25%, 30%, 50%?
But more importantly, what are those wants and needs? What do you, personally, view as the existential purpose of Macedonia? Then tell me what you, personally, view as the existential purpose of Albania?


Quote:
Even if the constitution is changed in the future and Albanian and Macedonian are officially equal at all levels.. what do Macedonians lose or how is their quality of life effected in any way...
Macedonians would lose the homeland of Macedonians and become citizens of a state as opposed to citizens of a Macedonian nation-state.

Tell me Albo, what do Albanians in Macedonia gain and how does their quality of life improve by making Albanian the official language in Macedonia across all of Macedonia even where there are no Albanians - given it is already the primary language in areas where Albanians are the majority (and in many cases the Macedonian language has been wiped out from road-signs, official websites, etc), or changing the national anthem, or changing the flag, or the name of the country, or modifying its' currency?

What will they really gain, over and above what the Albanians in Macedonia have Today where there is Albanian, officially in any area with more than 20% Albanian population with Albanian schools, universities, media, cultural groups, Albanians forming Government, Albanians in the police force and military, with Albanian Ministers, Albanian-owned businesses and opportunities equal to (and in some cases, due to the 'positive discrimination' laws of 2001 which disregard merit, where Albanians must be hired before Macedonians to ensure a quota is met) Macedonians?
And what do the Macedonians gain with all of that?
Rogi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 09:43 AM   #696
Albo
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 304
Albo is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Europe is divided upon cultural, linguistic and religious differences.


You question "what do Macedonians lose", tell me "what do Macedonians gain"?

How will multi language within the government be of benefit to Macedonia? Why do you believe multi language in government is necessary? What is so necessary about it?

How will this be of advantage to the government and the nation.

Explain to me why you don't believe this will be an inconvenience because I cant see how it can be of any convenience, please explain.

It is totally unnecessary, what benefit will be gained by having a second language in government.
Look.. since Independence Albanians in Macedonia have constantly been accused as not being loyal to the state.. and yes many haven't felt as if the Macedonian elite of RoM have truly respected or really wanted them to be a part of the state.. one only needs to read many comments on here or listen to the protesters on the streets of Macedonia from people who openly declare that they want a "Cista Makedonia" (pure Macedonia) or
"Smrt za Shiptari" death to the Albanians or other despicable slogans such as "The cursed Albanians" or the old favorite " Gas Chambers for the Albanians"

The whole idea of the Ohrid Agreement and the Albanian party Decleration which are supported by Albanian parties are to show that we don't want to divide Macedonia, nothing in the declaration harms anyone, but as joint ancestral inhabitants of this territory who make up a considerable number of the population who have contributed in the formation and governing of the state, we want to be on equal par institutionally and one day possibly constitutionally ..

What we ask for is recognition and legal protection that respects out linguistic and cultural heritage on this territory for today and future generations regardless of the % that we are... which only encourages EVIL institutional policies who's main aim is to make life as difficult as possible and offer next to zero perspective of living a normal life in ur homeland so you have no choice but to spend the majority of the year abroad working and sending money for those left behind to survive.

I believe this might truly be the last chance that we have to work together and press the reset button and work towards a joint common future where we can spend our energies in a unified prosperous manner where we all benefit...

We need to sort out all ethnic issues that have been reoccurring for decades so they aren't issues anymore.. and we don't need nationalist retohric being recycled over and over that leads nowhere..

The wider use of Albanian and proportional budgetary regional distribution will will make Albanians look more to Skopje and not Tirana or Prishtina to deal with our problems.. We have done our bit .. we broke the ice.. we overcame the Balkan mentality..we voted for a Macedonian party.. we put forward a Decleration that harms nobody.. Official language status have ZERO EFFECT on Macedonian identity as does Serbian being official in Kosovo which has ZERO effect on Albanian identify ...
Albo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 11:49 AM   #697
mklion
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 100
mklion is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Look.. since Independence Albanians in Macedonia have constantly been accused as not being loyal to the state.. and yes many haven't felt as if the Macedonian elite of RoM have truly respected or really wanted them to be a part of the state.. one only needs to read many comments on here or listen to the protesters on the streets of Macedonia from people who openly declare that they want a "Cista Makedonia" (pure Macedonia) or
"Smrt za Shiptari" death to the Albanians or other despicable slogans such as "The cursed Albanians" or the old favorite " Gas Chambers for the Albanians"

The whole idea of the Ohrid Agreement and the Albanian party Decleration which are supported by Albanian parties are to show that we don't want to divide Macedonia, nothing in the declaration harms anyone, but as joint ancestral inhabitants of this territory who make up a considerable number of the population who have contributed in the formation and governing of the state, we want to be on equal par institutionally and one day possibly constitutionally ..

What we ask for is recognition and legal protection that respects out linguistic and cultural heritage on this territory for today and future generations regardless of the % that we are... which only encourages EVIL institutional policies who's main aim is to make life as difficult as possible and offer next to zero perspective of living a normal life in ur homeland so you have no choice but to spend the majority of the year abroad working and sending money for those left behind to survive.
When the Macedonians voted for independence in 1991 the Albanians boycotted the vote.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/10/wo...ugoslavia.html


When Macedonia held a census in 1991 the Albanians heavily disputed it and made us redo the census in 1994 (with extra cost to the state) only to come back with the same numbers.

In 2001 the Albanians almost brought the country to civil war. They obtained greater rights in the municipalities in which they live through the Ohrid Framework Agreement

In 2007 in Operation Mountain Storm - Albanian terrorists were arrested/killed

In 2009 and 2013 Albanian mayors were voted in Struga and Kicevo for the first time. The new mayors fired a good proportion of the Macedonian civil workers and put Albanians in their positions.

In 2011 the census was cancelled because Albanians tried to inflate their numbers for more rights

in 2012 5 Macedonians were killed before Easter at Lake Smilkovci. These Macedonians didn't do anything to the Albanians.

In 2014 in Diva Naselba 8 Macedonian policemen were killed by Albanian terrorists.

In 1992 and in 2014 Nezvat Halili officially proclaimed the independence of the "Republic of Ilirida"

In 2017 The Albanians got together in a foreign country and developed a "Tirana Platform" as the first step towards federalization of the country (don't bullshit us we all know what this is).

This was just the stuff I could think of in 10 minutes. So now we ask again. Does this seem like an ethnic group that is loyal to the Macedonian state?

Finally since the actual percentage of people doesn't matter in your opinion (ie all languages should be official irrespective of the actual percentage that use it) do you believe the small minority of Macedonians in Albania should have Macedonian as an official language in Albania? If not then why?

Last edited by mklion; 04-04-2017 at 01:27 PM.
mklion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2017, 04:00 AM   #698
DraganOfStip
Senior Member
 
DraganOfStip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Malta
Posts: 1,253
DraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud ofDraganOfStip has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Look.. since Independence Albanians in Macedonia have constantly been accused as not being loyal to the state..
...and rightfully so.

Quote:
and yes many haven't felt as if the Macedonian elite of RoM have truly respected or really wanted them to be a part of the state..
Respect isn't something that is given for granted, it is EARNED. And so far, your people in Macedonia have done nothing in the past 25 years to earn it.
When you disrespect the flag, anthem and all symbols and institutions of the country you live in, you can's expect anything less.

Quote:
one only needs to read many comments on here or listen to the protesters on the streets of Macedonia from people who openly declare that they want a "Cista Makedonia" (pure Macedonia) or
"Smrt za Shiptari" death to the Albanians or other despicable slogans such as "The cursed Albanians" or the old favorite " Gas Chambers for the Albanians"
Those slogans and chants don't come unprovoked. Every reaction has an action that caused it. Chanting "UCK" on every Albanian rally, is only one of those actions.

Quote:
The whole idea of the Ohrid Agreement and the Albanian party Decleration which are supported by Albanian parties are to show that we don't want to divide Macedonia, nothing in the declaration harms anyone, but as joint ancestral inhabitants of this territory who make up a considerable number of the population who have contributed in the formation and governing of the state, we want to be on equal par institutionally and one day possibly constitutionally ..
This agreement placed your people in a privileged position over the majority population of the country, you have been granted more rights than anywhere else in the world. Stop complaining.

Quote:
What we ask for is recognition and legal protection that respects out linguistic and cultural heritage on this territory for today and future generations regardless of the % that we are...
You already have that! Your linguistic and cultural heritage is protected in places where Albanians are a majority for years now! You can't seriously expect that your language is imposed in areas where there are no Albanians in the first place? Your people are free to speak your language and cherish your cultural heritage in areas where you live, no one has a problem with that! Stop creating issues where there are none!

Quote:
which only encourages EVIL institutional policies who's main aim is to make life as difficult as possible and offer next to zero perspective of living a normal life in ur homeland so you have no choice but to spend the majority of the year abroad working and sending money for those left behind to survive.
Congrats, you just described every Macedonian citizen regardless of his ethnic,racial or religious background. Welcome to 21st century Macedonia!
__________________
”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George Orwell
DraganOfStip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2017, 06:47 AM   #699
Dejan
Member
 
Dejan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sidnej, Avstralija
Posts: 577
Dejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud ofDejan has much to be proud of
Default

This albo character smells like a paid mercenary. Spewing the same shit in various threads now. Basically spamming this forum. She's quick to get her generic albanian complaint in, but won't answer anything when her complaints are replied to.
__________________
You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.
Dejan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2017, 07:09 AM   #700
Albo
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 304
Albo is on a distinguished road
Default

Paid mercenary?? Wow.. now that's something I haven't been called before..
I working on getting back to as many posts as possible.. obviously I'm the odd one out here.. and responding to all is a little time consuming at times..
Albo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
macedonia, serbs


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump