Macedonia last in Europe by quality of life

[DraganOfStip]

In it's 2016 Sustainable Economic Development Assessment, the Boston Consulting Group (BCG) finds that Macedonia has the worst well-being in all of Europe.Factors taken into consideration include GDP per capita, unemployment rate, inflation, quality and availability of education, life expectancy, quality of infrastructure, environment condition, corruption control, freedom of press...Macedonia has the lowest score of 42,9 with Norway at the top with a score of 100.
Another devastating data on this forsaken land.Where does it end?

https://www.bcgperspectives.com/Images/BCG-The-Private-Sector-Opportunity-to-Improve-Well-Being-Jul-2016.pdf

[Stevce]

What a load of bullshit.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I find this unlikely considering this is how development in the former Yugoslavia is generally described:

Croatia- High
Slovenia- High
Macedonia- Moderate
Montenegro- Moderate
Serbia- Low
Bosnia- Low

Not to mention if you count Kosovo as a country, it is probably the lowest. I would say Belarus would be down there as well

[DraganOfStip]

I find this unlikely considering this is how development in the former Yugoslavia is generally described:

Croatia- High
Slovenia- High
Macedonia- Moderate
Montenegro- Moderate
Serbia- Low
Bosnia- Low

Not to mention if you count Kosovo as a country, it is probably the lowest. I would say Belarus would be down there as well

Described by who? Can you name some sources?

Kosovo is not a country.Kosovo is an experiment,a self-proclaimed independent country that is in fact an international protectorate where crime and corruption bloom in all segments,it is the next big powder keg in the Balkans waiting to ignite.

I would not agree that Serbia has a low level of development.I have several friends that live in Serbia and they say it's better than Macedonia.Not to the levels of Slovenia and Croatia,but better than Macedonia anyway.Passing through it,I didn't see a lot of improvement from Macedonia when it comes to infrastructure,but it wasn't worse than our own for sure.

As far as Belarus is concerned,I also know a few people from Macedonia that live and work there (generally went to work but eventually stayed) and what they say about Belarus is the exact opposite from what I (or anyone in the West) has been hearing about in media.

[Karposh]

Dragan, why are you such a naysayer? I stopped reading your posts a while ago now. All you do is constantly express negative and pessimistic views about Macedonia. And, before you get too defensive, trust me when I tell you that, I’m not trying to pick a keyboard fight with you. Believe it or not, I actually think that I understand where some of those deep rooted resentments which you hold are coming from. No doubt, they stem from your intense hatred of the Macedonian political scene.

You have made it clear that SDSM suck the big one and, absolutely crystal clear, that DPMNE suck an even bigger one. From your previous posts, I understand that you are unemployed and resent the country for your troubles. I’m not even going to pretend to understand how that must piss you off and I can in fact sympathise with you in that regard but, for Christ’s sake, enough of the Macedonia bashing already.

Not sure if you mean to or not but, for a forum that tries very hard to seek out and promote all that is good and positive with Macedonia, you seem to be doing the exact opposite. I’m sure you’ll agree Macedonia has many detractors and enemies who are ready to take cheap shots at her dignity any chance they get, but in all honesty mate, who needs enemies when Macedonia has sons like you. You spend most of your time digging up any dirt you can to paint Macedonia in a bad light. The gloom and doom which you sow leave no room for hope for a better tomorrow.

You once described Macedonia as a “shithole” which you couldn’t wait to get out of. Really, is this the right forum for such sentiments? Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to express those thoughts to your like-minded mates at your local “Kafich” in Shtip?

The last thing I want to do is single you out on this forum or try to lecture you in any way but mate, seriously, ease up on the whole Macedonia sucks agenda you have going. Trust me when I tell you that you have made your point loud and clear: Macedonia is a dirt poor and miserable “shithole” of a place with no hope for brighter future.

Now, back to these clowns from Boston who have compiled these results, does anyone really put any credence to what these idiots have decided the well-being scores of the countries of Europe should be? How did they measure these scores? What were the indicators? Actually, first, let’s ask ourselves what is well-being? It is a state of mind isn’t it? It is about being happy with life. However, what makes me happy might not be the same for you or somebody else. There are many indicators of happiness: Satisfaction and contentment with life; Enjoyment; Pleasure; Security; Comfort; Prosperity; Success; Fortune; Welfare; Quality of life – to name a few.

Macedonia may not stack up against the richer countries in Europe in terms of economic well-being but it’s got something else that many of the “higher rated” countries on the well-being scale can only dream about possessing. She has a soul; an enviable history; a unique culture; a warm, welcoming and friendly people; a great climate; and a natural beauty that words alone can not describe.

What if I was to tell you that many of the higher rated well-being countries on the map you have provided also have some of Europe’s highest suicide rates, including Denmark (ranked 27th), Sweden (ranked 31st) and Norway (ranked 41st) . The Suicide Prevention, Awareness and Support web site “Suicide.org” lists the top ranked international suicide rates. It may surprise you to know that for such a miserable “shithole” of a place, Macedonia doesn’t feature until way down on the list (ranked 64th).

[Amphipolis]

Well their method is questionable, yet quite simple and transparent, and my country (Greece) is also severely undermined (based on the ranking one normally expects) for (more or less) the same reasons (e.g. high unemployment, political instability).

I don't know how they managed to rank Italy lower than Spain and Portugal and especially lower than Baltic States. That seems like an obvious failure of their method. For more acceptable and customary indices check these out (where you're certainly above Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova, yet usually below Serbia, Montenegro, Belarus or Bulgaria):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

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[Gocka]

I think they call it a "crutch"

A country is an abstract concept, so if your problem (the country) is some abstract thing, then you never have to actually try to do something about it, you can always blame it without ever having to address it, because its out of your control. If you have a problem with a specific person, then you would address him or her accordingly, if your problem is a thing you can see and touch, again you would deal with it. People do it all the time in life, we have all done it at some point. We blame some random thing for all our problems to avoid solving them, at some point most people realize that thing is not really their problem, and even if it is, then their is always a solution, maybe just not the convenient one.

Macedonians think that only their country has problems, meanwhile half the world is in utter chaos, while most of them sit around at their local cafe complaining how bad it is.

My vindication came this past year when I helped my uncle get residency and immigrate to the USA. He had been here once in the late 90's (a very prosperous time) to work, but he was here illegally, didn't pay taxes or go through the usual channels like most Americans. He saved a lot of money while living with my family. We fed him, drove him around, my mom did is laundry, he worked construction for my dads company, got paid more than he was worth. He made off like a bandit. Fast forward to 2016. This time he came with my aunt as well. They are miserable, my aunt says she regrets ever leaving her village. She asks is this the famous America we all heard about? He now has to pay rent, health insurance, payroll taxes, buy food, pay utilities, buy a car, pay car insurance, file income taxes. He makes less money now then he did nearly 20 years ago working the same job. Life is complicated stressful and the money hardly pays the bills. They live in a studio apartment that frankly is hardly considered humane to live in. Its dirty flea infested and you an piss from one end to the other. They have no where to go nothing to do, and no money to show for it.

A lot of these Macedonians go to foreign countries, live in a very specific way that enables them to save lots of money without putting down roots. Then they go back to Macedonia with relatively a lot of money and think they were just in the promise land. Yet when they actually immigrate legally, put down roots and have to be part of the system like everyone else, they hate it and want to go back.

Its easy to live anywhere if you do it off the backs off people who are already rooted and subsidize you in one way or another. You cant immigrate anywhere in the world and just start from scratch and expect to live well.

Whats sad to me is so many Macedonians hold on to this dream of the promise land, that most will never reach, and they waist their whole life never taking action in Macedonia, and trying to make the best of that country. The few who actually make it abroad are few and far between. It also doesn't help when stupid American and Australian tourists go to Macedonia and like to brag and show off. Most of them are spending the few pennies they managed to save all year and go back to more meager conditions then they let on.

Personally I pity Dragan, because I have been there, I have also had crutches in my life, and blamed others for my short comings in life. Eventually when you realize most of the problem is yourself, you will be amazed at how much is actually under your control should you be brave enough to pursue it.

To say there are no successful people in Macedonia is a falsehood. I know a formally poor girl who started a marketing business from scratch. Now is supporting herself and her extended family and killing it. No political connections, no bullshit, just hard work and perseverance. Her story is not unique. The "country" never stopped her from achieving success.

To summarize, all the negativity toward Macedonia is only a way to cope with and justify his inability to get ahead, (no offence meant).

It will pass, and if he opens his eyes a little wider he will succeed.

Dragan, why are you such a naysayer? I stopped reading your posts a while ago now. All you do is constantly express negative and pessimistic views about Macedonia.

[DraganOfStip]

Dragan, why are you such a naysayer?

I'm simply being realistic.

I stopped reading your posts a while ago now.

That is your right.If you don't want to read a post,just skip it.No hard feelings at all.

All you do is constantly express negative and pessimistic views about Macedonia.

Like I said,I'm just being realistic.Someone may not like it,but that's reality and there is no reason to pretend it's not.

And, before you get too defensive, trust me when I tell you that, I’m not trying to pick a keyboard fight with you.

Me neither,I'm just replying to your post.

Not sure if you mean to or not but, for a forum that tries very hard to seek out and promote all that is good and positive with Macedonia, you seem to be doing the exact opposite.

The name of this forum is MACEDONIAN TRUTH forum.So far i have only posted the truth about Macedonia.It may be an ugly one,but it is what it is.

You spend most of your time digging up any dirt you can to paint Macedonia in a bad light.

Nah,in order to paint something in a bad light it needs to be in a good light first.In fact,I would call it "painting" if i spend my time trying to dig out good things in order to present it in a good light.That would be distorting the real picture (besides,I'd be putting Iceman out of a job).

You once described Macedonia as a “shithole” which you couldn’t wait to get out of. Really, is this the right forum for such sentiments? Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to express those thoughts to your like-minded mates at your local “Kafich” in Shtip?

I don't have the time nor the luxury to hang around in a local "kafich" mate,every coffee i have there is a liter of milk taken from my kid's stomach.I can't afford to do that,so i usually go to a "kafich" once every 5-6 weeks just to keep in touch with my friends (who's number reduces every now and then when someone moves out abroad to end his misery here).Express your doubts regarding this as much as you want,it's the truth.

Now, back to these clowns from Boston who have compiled these results, does anyone really put any credence to what these idiots have decided the well-being scores of the countries of Europe should be? How did they measure these scores? What were the indicators? Actually, first, let’s ask ourselves what is well-being? It is a state of mind isn’t it? It is about being happy with life. However, what makes me happy might not be the same for you or somebody else. There are many indicators of happiness: Satisfaction and contentment with life; Enjoyment; Pleasure; Security; Comfort; Prosperity; Success; Fortune; Welfare; Quality of life – to name a few.

The indicators are mentioned in my original post,you must have missed them.

What if I was to tell you that many of the higher rated well-being countries on the map you have provided also have some of Europe’s highest suicide rates, including Denmark (ranked 27th), Sweden (ranked 31st) and Norway (ranked 41st) . The Suicide Prevention, Awareness and Support web site “Suicide.org” lists the top ranked international suicide rates. It may surprise you to know that for such a miserable “shithole” of a place, Macedonia doesn’t feature until way down on the list (ranked 64th).

That means that Macedonians are cowards too among other things,at least the miserable people in the West had the balls to take their own life and end their misery .Sorry for the dark humor.

I respect your opinion mate,but since most of you fellas live in the diaspora my duty as a Macedonian who lives in the Republic is to keep you up-to-date with what's going on in your motherland (while I'm still here).And unfortunately it's all in a downward spiral.I'm not the kind of guy to lie and paint a rosy image about something just to satisfy the expectations of others.I simply forward the reality in the Republic to the readers of this forum as it is.I don't like it either,but don't shoot the messenger.
Feel free to ignore my posts if you find them unfitting,no hard feelings.Really.

[Risto the Great]

It's a country where party affiliations give you a chance of a job. Not much to celebrate about in my opinion. It's a communist era pig wrapped in capitalist clothing. Nothing to celebrate at all.

[Phoenix]

It's a country where party affiliations give you a chance of a job. Not much to celebrate about in my opinion. It's a communist era pig wrapped in capitalist clothing. Nothing to celebrate at all.

What happens in Macedonia is merely a microcosm of what happens in every country around the globe, perhaps Macedonia's smaller population highlights the problem in greater clarity, perhaps in much larger countries the problems are less obvious but they still exist...

If seeking employment, I'd say that the normal practice (whether accepted or not) generally follows the following selection criteria...

1. Nepotism
2. Cronyism
3. Tokenism
4. Merit

Look at Australia and the fiasco surrounding former PM Kevin Rudd seeking endorsement from the current government for the SG role at the UN...there's a clear example of the role of party affiliation at the highest levels being abused...

[Phoenix]

...Now, back to these clowns from Boston who have compiled these results, does anyone really put any credence to what these idiots have decided the well-being scores of the countries of Europe should be? How did they measure these scores? What were the indicators? Actually, first, let’s ask ourselves what is well-being? It is a state of mind isn’t it? It is about being happy with life. However, what makes me happy might not be the same for you or somebody else. There are many indicators of happiness: Satisfaction and contentment with life; Enjoyment; Pleasure; Security; Comfort; Prosperity; Success; Fortune; Welfare; Quality of life – to name a few.....

Call me a left-leaning conspiracy kook but I seriously can't take anything produced in the USA as being reliable or without a disingenuous political agenda at play.
The American's refuse to abandon the Cold War, any country that hasn't committed to a Faustian pact with the US is systematically denigrated and such 'studies' with their ratings serve the purpose to highlight the benefit of the Western model over other models in general and the very delusion of American exceptionalism...

[Vangelovski]

To be honest, I think the score given to Macedonia is overly generous. I would have scored it much lower. The place is on par with the third world. Literally nothing works the way its meant to. It has a long way to go.

[Amphipolis]

Taking a deeper look at the data in the link of post#1, it seems you also have a bad equality index comparing to Europe or even the rest of the Balkans. That was quite a surprise for me. Any ideas or explanations?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

[Karposh]

No need for any explanations Amphipolis. Just accept it. It is what it is. The Republic of Macedonia, sorry FYRoM, is a shithole that will remain that way indefinitely…Apparently. Please, don’t stop there Amphipolis. Keep digging, I’m sure you’ll find more shit on that God forsaken place. And make sure to post it here when you find it, so you can share it with all of us and spread the truth. The so-called Macedonians are no good and all cowards and don’t deserve to take some pride in their old homeland. But, on the bright side, now that we are all ashamed of that miserable old place, we can all take solace in the fact that most of us Fyromians live in the diaspora and can forget about that shithole once and for all. Life is sweet here. My well-being index is off the charts.

But, on a much brighter note, I’m sure the problem will soon disappear. Now, that the Fyromians have made such a complete mess of the place, thank God we have the Albanians just waiting on the side lines and ready to pick up where we have left off and make it smell like roses.

[Amphipolis]

To Phoenix, Vangelovski, Karposh

I think your approach is wrong. You should be cooler and more pragmatic with admitting the situation and dealing with it. As I already said, the situation is certainly NOT that bad (which doesn’t mean it’s good either). These indices and reports are semi-scientific; they should be studied with interest and not be rejected or blindly accepted especially when the index or the method is a new one, not an established one.

Unfortunately, things don’t change easily (for the better); they can change quickly only for the worse (Ukraine, Syria). Russia and Turkey are good exceptions. Turkey had an unprecedented economic growth under Erdogan and even reached EU levels, a thing I would dogmatically consider impossible back in the 90s, especially for a vast country with so many problems, drawbacks and contradictions.

Living in Greece that deals with all kinds of (additional) problems lately, I often have to see similar reports or foreign estimations from various institutions. I like statistics and it’s interesting to feel and live the problem first (in Greece), and then see it translated and certified in figures.

I suggest you follow all indices and reports and antagonize with countries of the same size and background (Albania, Kosovo, Armenia, Slovenia and all three Baltic States) for every single detail in society and economy.