The European Union - the New Soviet Union?

[Daskalot]

Mastika is our very own pro Bulgar Macedonian, he might even be a real Bulgar. Only Mastika knows what he is. But according to him Pirin is not a part of Macedonia.

[Sportster]

Are you saying that we are Bulgarians?

No Sir far from it, I personaly know many Bulgarians and you are nothing like them!! You share many similarities linguinstigly, musicaly, historicaly etc but YOU ARE NOT BULGARIANS, YOU ARE NOT GREEKS EITHER.

[Sportster]

There were many people (both Macedonians and Greeks) who fought the Germans and Nazism, and who sided with them, collaborators were found across all of Europe. Many Macedonians directly and indirectly helped the Greek resistance in German occupied Greece, to plot against the occupiers, the majority of whom were those who wanted to be Greeks/the Grkomani. However, many who were turned off Greece's virulent and discriminatory racial politcies since the 1920s (most notably under Metaxas in the 1930s) sided with the Bulgarian occupiers. I am not going to deny this, however why did they side with them? Firstly they once again were allowed to speak their own language freely, and at least resided in a state with a similar official language and were allowed to attend church services in a similar language. However, during this period Macedonians didn't stop seeking for an independent and more free Macedonia, even if Bulgaria was in charge. Sure Bulgaria was better then Greece, but an independant Macedonia was the best. When the Communists in Yugoslavia eventually became the leading resistance group there it encouraged many to side with them because at least the Macedonian language was recogised and so to was the Macedonian ethnicity. Most people sided with the communists, not because they were communist, but because they offered the Macedonian people of Greece an opportunity be freely Macedonian. The Macedonians took up this offer quickly establishing schools, newspapers, etc. etc. Many later left because they would rather be Macedonians outside of their homeland, but able to express their identity, then be stuck in their homeland and wait out a repeat of the persecution that occured in the Metaxas days. This has now changed and the Macedonian people are in a good position to once again reassert their identity and lobby for their minority rights given to them by the Provisional government in the period 1945-1948.

Mastika I salute you and your honesty. You know what I have concluded to? It was a combination of misunderstanding, politics and manipulation by others, same as today. The language was the biggest reason, Greeks heard Macedonian and thought it was Bulgarian...end of story thats what it is, thats what it all comes down too. All the Macedonians I have meet make me thing one thing.."Shit man these people are just like us, where did it go so wrong?"
Thank you for your honest post. Please do not feel disandavdage or embarassed because a grk is siding with you in the open...stand strong it will pay off!!!

[Daskalot]

Im not surprised of your ability to deconstruck all Greek myths. You sell you facts and I will sell mine. My politicians and Academics claim that the gold was stollen and no legaly elected administration of the time sold nothing, they also claim that we never got one cent of compensation from the Germans, Im sure I read somewhere a similar scenario in regards to the Acropolis stolen marbles claimed by you. One way or an other I think your claims ar a bit byass because your people were an official Nazi ally at the time and its only natural for you to side with them even today.

Are you saying that we are Bulgarians?

[Sportster]

Yeh, those that copped shell shock. Those that did not, kept there Macedonian identity.

"They" (Nazi collaborators) were nothing but Greeks. The same Greeks that the British backed together with the right-wing security battalions. You've heard of Archbishop Damaskinos? who brokered a cease-fire between ELAS (communists) and British forces. Then after this In 1945 the government and the communists sign the "Varkiza Agreement" Do you know what the "Varkiza Agreement" was? a disarmanent of the ELAS resistance fighters as well as there enemies the Nazi collaborators including your 1943-1944 Prime minister Ioannis Rallisand members of the far right.

Do i have to teach you your own History? lol

Oh please dont make post photographs and shit, Im not in to it yet. Oh my god you know about Varkiza...wow!!!

[Mastika]

Yes many of your people fought the Germans off like the rest of their countrymen, thats why their names live on many many monuments, thats why their families are in Greece and thats why they are referred by you as Grkmans. But a substantial number did not, and as soon as the Germans arrived they sided with them, together with the official Bulgarian army and after that when the war was over they turned overnight from Nazi facists to Serbian Communists and they lost again and after that they had to live Greece and that is why you today live in Australia. Do not comfuse these people with others.

There were many people (both Macedonians and Greeks) who fought the Germans and Nazism, and who sided with them, collaborators were found across all of Europe. Many Macedonians directly and indirectly helped the Greek resistance in German occupied Greece, to plot against the occupiers, the majority of whom were those who wanted to be Greeks/the Grkomani. However, many who were turned off Greece's virulent and discriminatory racial politcies since the 1920s (most notably under Metaxas in the 1930s) sided with the Bulgarian occupiers. I am not going to deny this, however why did they side with them? Firstly they once again were allowed to speak their own language freely, and at least resided in a state with a similar official language and were allowed to attend church services in a similar language. However, during this period Macedonians didn't stop seeking for an independent and more free Macedonia, even if Bulgaria was in charge. Sure Bulgaria was better then Greece, but an independant Macedonia was the best. When the Communists in Yugoslavia eventually became the leading resistance group there it encouraged many to side with them because at least the Macedonian language was recogised and so to was the Macedonian ethnicity. Most people sided with the communists, not because they were communist, but because they offered the Macedonian people of Greece an opportunity be freely Macedonian. The Macedonians took up this offer quickly establishing schools, newspapers, etc. etc. Many later left because they would rather be Macedonians outside of their homeland, but able to express their identity, then be stuck in their homeland and wait out a repeat of the persecution that occured in the Metaxas days. This has now changed and the Macedonian people are in a good position to once again reassert their identity and lobby for their minority rights given to them by the Provisional government in the period 1945-1948.

[Bill77]

Yes many of your people fought the Germans off like the rest of their countrymen, thats why their names live on many many monuments, thats why their families are in Greece and thats why they are referred by you as Grkmans..

Yeh, those that copped shell shock. Those that did not, kept there Macedonian identity.

But a substantial number did not, and as soon as the Germans arrived they sided with them.

"They" (Nazi collaborators) were nothing but Greeks. The same Greeks that the British backed together with the right-wing security battalions. You've heard of Archbishop Damaskinos? who brokered a cease-fire between ELAS (communists) and British forces. Then after this In 1945 the government and the communists sign the "Varkiza Agreement" Do you know what the "Varkiza Agreement" was? a disarmanent of the ELAS resistance fighters as well as there enemies the Nazi collaborators including your 1943-1944 Prime minister Ioannis Rallisand members of the far right.

Do i have to teach you your own History? lol

[Sportster]

Which line should USA join? The one that says "I gave Greece money and all I got was this lousy T-shirt + a sexually transmitted disease?"

No the one that says..."Que here for pay back!"

[Risto the Great]

Which line should USA join? The one that says "I gave Greece money and all I got was this lousy T-shirt + a sexually transmitted disease?"

[Sportster]

Pangalos was a fat little petulant fool. I have shown you why he said "you could have said thanks". It was because he did not mean it and knows you do not deserve it. If you don't understand English, feel free to ask.

Do you really want to explore Greece's relationship with the Nazis? Further Greece's relationship with its own Jews?

I have said it before to you, there is not one Grkoman in Greece. Only Greek citizens.

Had it not been for the Truman Doctrine, my people would still be there I would imagine .... although it may well not have been called Greece . Has Greece ever repaid its debts to the USA?

usa can join the line.
Greeks and Jews...oh please tempt me and I will show you some great stuff!!!

[Risto the Great]

Pangalos was a fat little petulant fool. I have shown you why he said "you could have said thanks". It was because he did not mean it and knows you do not deserve it. If you don't understand English, feel free to ask.

Do you really want to explore Greece's relationship with the Nazis? Further Greece's relationship with its own Jews?

I have said it before to you, there is not one Grkoman in Greece. Only Greek citizens.

Had it not been for the Truman Doctrine, my people would still be there I would imagine .... although it may well not have been called Greece . Has Greece ever repaid its debts to the USA?

[Sportster]

Is that it Sportster?
I am biased and you believe your politician who says "You could have said thanks" instead? !
My people were citizens of Greece at the time. They were not Nazi allies at all. Many of my people fought for Greece in their army. And they still were treated like pigs once they got back to their villages. If you are suggesting Macedonians were Nazi allies, you are also mistaken. You really should learn more about Greek history, let me know if you need me to fill in the gaps.

Stick to your myths. The British archives are reliable enough for me.

BTW, I don't think I have entered into a discussion with you about the rightfully inherited marbles. I hope you have not confused me with Risto Stefov, there are in fact a number of great Ristos in the world ... I am merely one of them.

Pagalos statement was diplomatic and with no political will as the usual politician tackle this issue...with causious they dont want to upset Germany.
Yes many of your people fought the Germans off like the rest of their countrymen, thats why their names live on many many monuments, thats why their families are in Greece and thats why they are referred by you as Grkmans. But a substantial number did not, and as soon as the Germans arrived they sided with them, together with the official Bulgarian army and after that when the war was over they turned overnight from Nazi facists to Serbian Communists and they lost again and after that they had to live Greece and that is why you today live in Australia. Do not comfuse these people with others.

[Risto the Great]

Is that it Sportster?
I am biased and you believe your politician who says "You could have said thanks" instead? !
My people were citizens of Greece at the time. They were not Nazi allies at all. Many of my people fought for Greece in their army. And they still were treated like pigs once they got back to their villages. If you are suggesting Macedonians were Nazi allies, you are also mistaken. You really should learn more about Greek history, let me know if you need me to fill in the gaps.

Stick to your myths. The British archives are reliable enough for me.

BTW, I don't think I have entered into a discussion with you about the rightfully inherited marbles. I hope you have not confused me with Risto Stefov, there are in fact a number of great Ristos in the world ... I am merely one of them.

[Sportster]

Did you allow for compensation the Germans gave in 1960?
Did you allow for gold sales by the Office of the Economic Deputy in Greece during the war? Why were they selling to the Nazis anyway?
Did you take into account the following observation:

I note the following point from the British archives:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/pdf3/fco_pdf_nazigold1

Do you think that if Greece genuinely had a claim on the mysterious gold reserves they would have said this:


Is that an official request? If I was Germany, I would say "thanks" in order to avoid a protracted legal dispute. In distinct contrast, the French are still demanding their gold to be returned and will not settle for a "thank you".

I note Greece is a member of the Nazi gold compensation scheme with a commitment to return all or some of the stolen funds from the Jews. Why would it be committed to returning this money if the Germans stole all of it?

To be honest, either you have now had an education or else you are a victim of your "training" in Greece. Why don't you look into your facts before sounding like a Greek politician?

Keep making stupid demands like this though. It might get pity from someone, somewhere .... somehow. But deep down Greece knows it has milked the cash-cow WAY too much and now it is time to feel some pain. It will be good for Greece.

Im not surprised of your ability to deconstruck all Greek myths. You sell you facts and I will sell mine. My politicians and Academics claim that the gold was stollen and no legaly elected administration of the time sold nothing, they also claim that we never got one cent of compensation from the Germans, Im sure I read somewhere a similar scenario in regards to the Acropolis stolen marbles claimed by you. One way or an other I think your claims ar a bit byass because your people were an official Nazi ally at the time and its only natural for you to side with them even today.

[Sportster]

Exactly, you got that and more back. After everything that Greece has undeservedly received and criminally snatched, you are in no position to ask for anything.

You make me sound like a real bitch but...someone asked for money recently and got 140billions...now I wouldnt call that "you cant ask for nothing"!