Rigas the Vlach defines who is a “Greek”, 1797!

[Daskalot]

Page 157.


Page 158.


Page 159.


Source: "The Movement for Greek Independence, 1770-1821: A Collection of Documents" by Richard Clogg, 1976.

I hope that you readers will understand that anyone could be a Greek, the rules for becoming a Greek was not that harsh, thus Greeks claiming a 4000 year old ancestry become quite ridiculous.
When they do not even have a 200 year old history.
They are a modern fabrication of the thinkers and philhellenes of the day, which was materialized in absurdum when the "pure" Greek king from Bavaria, King Othon the Hellene started to rule his kingdom.
Which prior to his rule had never existed in history.

Greece is a modern myth.

[makedonin]

ping hellas

response yok hellas
response yok hellas
response yok hellas
response yok hellas

Ping-Statistik hellas not found


go Daskalot go

[Daskalot]

Greeks please comment, we need your input here! Urgently!

[TerraNova]

Rigas had a vision of an empire of Balcans ,based on Enlightenment's Principles and those of the French revolution and ancient Greece, with the name Hellas.

There everyone would live in freedom and equality ,despite his language or religion.
There is almost nothing common with the Balcan nationalism of the 19th-20th century.

"Βουλγάροι κι᾿ Ἀρβανῆτες, Ἀρμένοι καὶ ῾Ρωμιοί,
Ἀράπηδες καὶ ἄσπροι, μὲ μιὰ κοινὴν ὁρμή,
Γιὰ τὴν ἐλευθερίαν, νὰ ζώσωμεν σπαθί,"

Bulgarians and Arvanites(Albanians) ,Armenians and Romioi(Greeks) ,
blacks and whites ,with common force ,
for freedom lets take swords



"Νὰ σφάξωμεν τοὺς λύκους, ποῦ στὸν ζυγὸν βαστοῦν,
καὶ Χριστιανοὺς καὶ Τούρκους, σκληρᾶ τοὺς τυραννοῦν".

Lets slaughter the wolves,who hold under their yoke ,
both Christians and Turks ,and the tyrannize them harsh.


also...
Σουλιώταις καὶ Μανιώταις, λιοντάρια ξακουστὰ
ὡς πότε σταῖς σπηλιαῖς σας, κοιμᾶστε σφαλιστά;
Μαυροβουνιοῦ καπλάνια, Ὀλύμπου σταυρ᾿ ἀητοί,
κι᾿ Ἀγράφων τὰ ξεφτέρια, γεννῆτε μιὰ ψυχή.
Ἀνδρεῖοι Μακεδόνες, ὁρμήσετε γιὰ μιά,
καὶ αἷμα τῶν τυράννων, ρουφῆστε σὰ θεριά.

Souliots and Maniots,famous lions,
until when will you sleep on your caves locked?
Tigers of Mavrovouni,Eagles of Olympus ,
and hawks of Agrafa become one soul.
Brave Macedonians rush at once,
suck like beasts the blood of the tyrants!

Rigas Ferraios
, Thourios

http://www.phys.uoa.gr/~nektar/history/3contemporary/regas_velestinles.htm

[Daskalot]

Rigas had a vision of an empire of Balcans ,based on Enlightenment's Principles and those of the French revolution and ancient Greece, with the name Hellas.

There everyone would live in freedom and equality ,despite his language or religion.
There is almost nothing common with the Balcan nationalism of the 19th-20th century.

"Βουλγάροι κι᾿ Ἀρβανῆτες, Ἀρμένοι καὶ ῾Ρωμιοί,
Ἀράπηδες καὶ ἄσπροι, μὲ μιὰ κοινὴν ὁρμή,
Γιὰ τὴν ἐλευθερίαν, νὰ ζώσωμεν σπαθί,"

Bulgarians and Arvanites(Albanians) ,Armenians and Romioi(Greeks) ,
blacks and whites ,with common force ,
for freedom lets take swords



"Νὰ σφάξωμεν τοὺς λύκους, ποῦ στὸν ζυγὸν βαστοῦν,
καὶ Χριστιανοὺς καὶ Τούρκους, σκληρᾶ τοὺς τυραννοῦν".

Lets slaughter the wolves,who hold under their yoke ,
both Christians and Turks ,and the tyrannize them harsh.


also...
Σουλιώταις καὶ Μανιώταις, λιοντάρια ξακουστὰ
ὡς πότε σταῖς σπηλιαῖς σας, κοιμᾶστε σφαλιστά;
Μαυροβουνιοῦ καπλάνια, Ὀλύμπου σταυρ᾿ ἀητοί,
κι᾿ Ἀγράφων τὰ ξεφτέρια, γεννῆτε μιὰ ψυχή.
Ἀνδρεῖοι Μακεδόνες, ὁρμήσετε γιὰ μιά,
καὶ αἷμα τῶν τυράννων, ρουφῆστε σὰ θεριά.

Souliots and Maniots,famous lions,
until when will you sleep on your caves locked?
Tigers of Mavrovouni,Eagles of Olympus ,
and hawks of Agrafa become one soul.
Brave Macedonians rush at once,
suck like beasts the blood of the tyrants!

Rigas Ferraios
, Thourios

http://www.phys.uoa.gr/~nektar/histo...elestinles.htm

Thank you for your translation of his proclamation, he mentions many diverse peoples, what do you think of Macedonians in the above context?

[TerraNova]

Thank you for your translation of his proclamation, he mentions many diverse peoples, what do you think of Macedonians in the above context?

Do u have any idea?

[Daskalot]

Do u have any idea?

Are you afraid to answer questions?
I am not the one providing the quote, you are, so what do you think of the Macedonians in the above context?

[TerraNova]

Are you afraid to answer questions?
I am not the one providing the quote, you are, so what do you think of the Macedonians in the above context?

No.I m not afraid..but u ask ,but u never answer,so its useless to answer u.
I think Rigas talks abt them as he talks about Maniots and Agrafiots....what do u think ?

[Daskalot]

No.I m not afraid..but u ask ,but u never answer,so its useless to answer u.
I think Rigas talks abt them as he talks about Maniots and Agrafiots....what do u think ?

Why do you think that he does not use them in the same sense as Romeoi and Bulgarians, couldnt the Maniots be considered as a separate people back then?

The Mani are very peculiar.

[TerraNova]

Why do you think that he does not use them in the same sense as Romeoi and Bulgarians, couldnt the Maniots be considered as a separate people back then?

The Mani are very peculiar.

The whole text is the following...

Το Τέλος Του Όρκου


Σ' ανατολή και δύση, και νότον και βοριά,
για την πατρίδα όλοι, να 'χωμεν μια καρδιά.
Στην πίστιν του καθ' ένας, ελεύθερος να ζη,
στην δόξαν του πολέμου, να τρέξωμεν μαζί.


***Βουλγάροι κι Αρβανήτες, Αρμένιοι και Ρωμιοί,
Αράπηδες και άσπροι, με μια κοινήν ορμή,
Για την ελευθερίαν, να ζώσωμεν σπαθί,
πως είμαστ' αντριωμένοι, παντού να ξακουσθή.


Όσα απ' την τυραννίαν, πήγαν στην ξενητιά
στον τόπον του καθ' ένας, ας έλθη τώρα πιά.
Και όσοι του πολεμου, την τέχνην αγροικούν
Εδώ ας τρέξουν όλοι, τυρράνους να νικούν.


Η Ρούμελη τους κράζει, μ' αγκάλες ανοιχτές,
τους δίδει βιό και τόπον, αξίες και τιμές.
Ως ποτ' οφφικιάλος, σε ξένους Βασιλείς;
έλα να γένης στύλος, δικής σου της φυλής.


Κάλλιο για την πατρίδα, κανένας να χαθή
ή να κρεμάση φούντα, για ξένον στο σπαθί.
Και όσοι προσκυνήσουν, δεν είναι πιά εχθροί,
αδέλφια μας θα γένουν, ας είναι κι εθνικοί.


Μα όσοι θα τολμήσουν, αντίκρυ να σταθούν,
εκείνοι και δικοί μας, αν είναι, ας χαθούν.
Σουλιώτες και Μανιάτες, λιοντάρια ξακουστά
ως πότε σταις σπηλιές σας, κοιμάστε σφαλιστά;


Μαυροβουνιού καπλάνια, Ολύμπου σταυραητοί,
κι Αγράφων τα ξεφτέρια, γεννήστε μια ψυχή.
Ανδρείοι Μακεδόνες, ορμήσετε για μια,
και αίμα των τυράννων, ρουφήξτε σα θεριά.


Του Σάββα και Δουνάβου, αδέλφια Χριστιανοί,[2]
με τα άρματα στο χέρι, καθ' ένας ας φανή,
Το αίμα σας ας βράση, με δίκαιον θυμόν,
μικροί μεγάλοι ομώστε, τυρράννου τον χαμόν.


Λεβέντες αντριωμένοι, Μαυροθαλασσινοί,
ο βάρβαρος ως πότε, θε να σας τυραννή.
Μην καρτερήτε πλέον, ανίκητοι Λαζοί,[2]
χωθήτε στο μπογάζι, μ' εμάς και σεις μαζί.


Δελφίνια της θαλάσσης, αζδέρια των νησιών,
σαν αστραπή χυθήτε, χτυπάτε τον εχθρόν.
Της Κρήτης και της Νύδρας, θαλασσινά πουλιά,[3]
καιρός ειν' της πατριδος, ν' ακούστε την λαλιά.


Κι οσ' είστε στην αρμάδα, σαν άξια παιδιά,
οι νόμοι σας προστάζουν, να βάλετε φωτιά.
Με εμάς κι εσείς Μαλτέζοι, γεννήτε ένα κορμί,[2]
κατά της τυραννίας, ριχθήτε με ορμή.


Σας κράζει η Ελλάδα, σας θέλει, σας πονεί,
ζητά την συνδρομήν σας, με μητρική φωνή.
Τι σκέκεις Παζβαντζιόγλου, τόσον εκστατικός;
τινάξου στο Μπαλκάνι, φώλιασε σαν αητός.


Τους μπούφους και κοράκους, καθόλου μη ψηφάς,
με τον ραγιά ενώσου, αν θέλης να νικάς.
Συλήστρα και Μπραίλα, Σμαήλι και Κιλί,
Μπενδέρι και Χωτήνι, εσένα προσκαλεί.


Στρατεύματα σου στείλε, κι εκείνα προσκυνούν
γιατί στην τυρραννίαν, να ζήσουν δεν μπορούν.
Γκιουρντζή πιά μη κοιμάσαι, σηκώσου με ορμήν,
τον Προύσια να μοιάσης, έχεις την αφορμήν.


Και συ που στο Χαλέπι, ελεύθερα φρονείς[4]
πασιά καιρόν μη χάνεις, στον κάμπον να φανής.
Με τα στρατεύματά σου, ευθύς να συκωθής,
στης Πόλης τα φερμάνια, ποτέ να μη δοθής.


Του Μισιριού ασλάνια, για πρώτη σας δουλειά,[4]
δικόν σας ένα μπέη, κάμετε βασιλιά.
Χαράτζι της Αιγύπτου, στην Πόλη ας μη φανή,
για να ψοφήσει ο λύκος, όπου σας τυραννεί.


Με μια καρδιά όλοι, μια γνώμη, μια ψυχή,
χτυπάτε του τυράννου, την ρίζα να χαθή.
Να ανάψουμε μια φλόγα, σε όλην την Τουρκιά,
να τρέξει από την Μπόσνα, και ως την Αραπιά.


Ψηλά στα μπαϊράκια, σηκώστε τον σταυρόν,
και σαν αστροπελέκια, χτυπατε τον εχθρόν.
Ποτέ μη στοχασθήτε, πως είναι δυνατός,
καρδιοκτυπά και τρέμει, σαν τον λαγόν κι αυτός.


Τριακόσιοι Γκιρτζιαλήδες, τον έκαμαν να ιδή,
πως δεν μπορεί με τόπια, μπροστά τους να εβγεί.
Λοιπόν γιατί αργήτε, τι στέκεσθε νεκροί;
ξυπνήστε μην είστε ενάντιοι κι εχθροί.


Πως οι προπάτορές μας, ορμούσαν σα θεριά,
για την ελευθερία, πηδούσαν στη φωτιά.
Έτσι κι ημείς, αδέλφια, ν' αρπάξουμε για μια
τα άρματα, και να βγούμεν απ' την πικρή σκλαβιά.


Να σφάξουμε τους λύκους, που στον ζυγόν βαστούν,
και Χριστιανούς και Τούρκους, σκληρά τους τυραννούν.
Στεργιάς και του πελάγου, να λάμψη ο σταυρός,
και στην δικαιοσύνην, να σκύψη ο εχθρός.


Ο κόσμος να γλυτώση, απ' αύτην την πληγή,
κι ελεύθεροι να ζώμεν, αδέλφια εις την γη.
The two mentions are not placed together.


...
So in *** Rigas mentions nations -Romioi,Bulgaroi,Arvanites,Armenoi, and just below races -blacks and whites.

Under this..starts to mention Geographically the people -Agrafiots ,Maniots,Suliots,Olympians-Macedonians,and so on.

Note also that when he speaks abt non Greeks thats obvious -
for example he says "and you brothers Christians from Sava and Dunav"...[2]
or "come with us too,Maltese" or "come with us too brave Lazs"...[2]

BUT "sea birds of Crete and Hydra,it's time to listen to the voice of our Motherland".[3]

Also he tells to the Egyptians and the people of Halep in Syria,to rise and have their own King.[4]

Abt the Maniots-they could not be considered anything but Greek-noone in history did that.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Seems that there were many ways to become a Roman (Romioi) just as there were many, generalised and vague interpretations of what actually constituted a Roman (Romioi) at that time.

[TrueMacedonian]

Something interesting I found about the father of modern "greece";


page 47


He never ever set foot in "greece".

[Soldier of Macedon]

It is probably in reference to his non participation in any serious uprising actions in Greece. According to the below, he was a Vlach born in Thessaly, and once he left his homeland, it seems that he never returned before being killed by the Turks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigas_Feraios

He was born in a wealthy family of Aromanian ancestry[1] (a branch of which was known by the nickname Trushina),[2] in the village of Velestino, Thessaly, near ancient Pherae (from which Feraios derives). Educated at the Ampelakion School, Feraios became a teacher in the village of Kissos, and fought the local Ottoman presence. At the age of twenty, he killed an important Ottoman figure and fled to the uplands of Mount Olympus, where he enlisted in a band of soldiers led by Spiro Zera.

[tchaiku]

Bump......

[Amphipolis]

I hope that you readers will understand that anyone could be a Greek, the rules for becoming a Greek was not that harsh, thus Greeks claiming a 4000 year old ancestry become quite ridiculous.
When they do not even have a 200 year old history.
They are a modern fabrication of the thinkers and philhellenes of the day, which was materialized in absurdum when the "pure" Greek king from Bavaria, King Othon the Hellene started to rule his kingdom.
Which prior to his rule had never existed in history.
Greece is a modern myth.

Yes, all the above people, including Turks (see Article 7) would be citizens of the Greek Republic (or Empire). Article 7 says "all people of the Kingdom constitute the dominant people regardless of dialect or religion" and adds as example, "Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Armenides, Turks and every other genre".