Deconstruction of the term Bulgar/B'lgar/Bugar/Voulgar!

[TrueMacedonian]

All of you guys are Gems. i am so proud of all of yous and proud to be Macedonian. Thank god yous are one of us.

Thanks SoM, and Bill I agree everyone contributed greatly to this topic. If you read from page 1 and on you will see things many many people did not know before. Plenty of people always ask me "Why did Macedonians sometimes refer to themselves as Bulgars?" and I always send them a link to this topic. This is one of the most valuable topics on this forum. Daskale started it and let's continue to build on it

[TrueMacedonian]

Some more food for thought;

http://books.google.com/books?id=-XU9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA51&dq=merchants+greeks+farmers+bulgarians&lr=#v=onepage&q=merchants%20greeks%20farmers%20bulgarians&f=false

Leon Dominian follows the social labor status of Macedonia to the "T"!!!

[TrueMacedonian]

The Macedonian Conflict by Loring Danforth page 59

[TrueMacedonian]

All peasants were Macedonians; shepherds were Vlachs; merchants and bureaucrats were Greeks; and the high administrators were Muslims. (Vermeulen 1978:10).

Minorities and mother country imagery By Gerald L. Gold, Memorial University of Newfoundland. Institute of Social and Economic Research page 60.

[Bratot]

[Bratot]

[Soldier of Macedon]

Well, Macedonians are known to have made such statements (bulgars are tatars) as early as the mid-19th century when making distinction between themselves and the Bulgarians, and the Bulgarians do claim central Asian Khans as their ancestors, putting up statues of Asparuh and such in their Russian creation....so who are we to argue.

[Bratot]

За Македонците терминот Бугар не означавал етническа припадност, а славянска.
За македонците и руския царь беше бугарски, не по националност a по славянство, “Periodichesko spisanie (Sofia), LXV (1904)“ стр.818.

[Bratot]

За Македонците терминот Бугар не означавал етническа припадност, а славянска.
За македонците и руския царь беше бугарски, не по националност a по славянство, “Periodichesko spisanie (Sofia), LXV (1904)“ стр.818.

The propaganda consisted of introducing among the common Slavic people the world “Bolgar”, as a synonym for “Slavonic Christian”; As this propaganda was so strong, really the word “Bolgar” became a synonym for “Christian that speak Slavonic” in the 19 Cent., but not and nationality. When bulgarian peasant used to say "we are Bulgars", he meant "we are Christians", i.e. Orthodox. The Russian Tsar was a "Bulgarian Tsar" for him not by nationality, but by Orthodox Christianity.
(Source: A. Teodorov-Balan, Edna makedonska teorija - Periodichesko spisanie (Sofia), LXV (1904), p.818).

[Risto the Great]

When bulgarian peasant used to say "we are Bulgars", he meant "we are Christians", i.e. Orthodox. The Russian Tsar was a "Bulgarian Tsar" for him not by nationality, but by Orthodox Christianity.

But when a Greek calls himself a Roman for 1500 years, he is Greek.
To use modern concepts of nationalism to define a race of people who descend from a biblical/antique/ancient race is ludicrous.

[TrueMacedonian]

"Bulgarians" in Otto's German Made 'greece'? Check it out;


page 162

[TrueMacedonian]

Here is something interesting, take note of the "Bulgarian" names:



Were the pre-Exarchate Bulgarians Srbomani? Or Grkomani?

Here is something else:



Tsk, tsk, I guess these 'Hellenes' were missed by Bakoyan and Karaman, somebody alert kathireminioglou......

Here's another Bulgar with a few different names. The original name he was born with is what relates to SoM's post here - http://wapedia.mobi/en/Georgi_Rakovski

Georgi Stoykov Rakovski (Bulgarian: Георги Стойков Раковски) (1821 - 9 October 1867), known also by his Greek surname Georgi Sava Rakovski (Bulgarian: Георги Сава Раковски), born Sabi Stoykov Popovich (Bulgarian: Съби Стойков Попович), was a 19th-century Bulgarian revolutionary and writer and an important figure of the Bulgarian National Revival and the resistance against Ottoman rule.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Haven't checked if this has been posted earlier on the thread, but check:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...light=Hilendar

Тук е потребно да се съберат заедно имената на българските крале и царе, колкото се намират, и кой след кого е царувал

1. Пръв крал бил Вукич. 2. Крал Драгич. Вукич и Драгич били двама родни брата. 3. Крал Борис. 4. Крал Братоя Силни. 5. Крал Свети Тривелия. 6.Крал Тербал, син на Тривелия. 7. Крал Мойсей, син на Тривелия. Имената на седемте крале се намират записани в началото.

Paisius of Hilendar refers to the first Bulgar kings as Vukich and Dragich.

Here is something in reference to Russian surnames:

http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html

More precisely, Russian names started only as a given name, adding the patronymic around the 10th century, and finally the surname (from the patronymic constructions) only in the late 15th or early 16th century. The surname did not become common, in fact, until the 18th century (Tupikov, 1903: 21-22).

In the Balkans it would appear that "ich" was more common at the beginning of the 19th century, as there are examples of Bulgars and some Macedonians (to a much lesser degree) that also employ it, while the Serbs, who created their state during this early period seem to have stuck with it. The Bulgar flirtation with "ich" and some Greek suffixes was eventually overcome by the preference of the "ov" and "ev" suffixes. As the Macedonians were the last to gain a state and require formalisation, they were the last to standardise their names collectively. The fact that this process is largely a concerted construction by a group of people reveals the weakness in some of the arguments proposed by confused Serbs and Bulgars, who claim that everybody in the Balkans with an "ich" or "ov" suffix on their surname belongs to their respective nations. One could then argue that both the Serbs and Bulgars are good little Russians.

The "ski" suffix for words and names appears in OCS from the 10th century, I wonder if "ich" and "ov" appear at the same time also.

Personally, I would have been equally happy if people just retained their paternal-family names like Petar Stojanche, Dame Jordan, Georgi Ivanko, etc, but I can see some benefits (administration and identification) with the standardisation of family names in a state.

[TrueMacedonian]

This is from Mark Mazower's book Salonica City of Ghosts page 249;



and now this is the actually text from Sir Henry Layards book with something extra added in;






So "Greek" meant being a "Christian" and the term "Bulgarian" was held in reproach and contempt. Here are the definitions for these 2 words in case some people out there don't know;

Reproach -http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/reproach
Contempt - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contempt

[makedonin]

Bulgarian still has the same meaning, derogative, for anyone else in the Balkans, but the Bulgarians them self.

The Greek on the other hand still gives the Orthodox Church in Greece a State to rule. They are the masters with out dispute.

Good find TM.