Russian Influence in the modern Bulgarian Language

[Daskalot]

As I understand from your previous posts OCS is a macedonian language, but isn't it strange that it contains some strange letters - ь,ч,ѣ,ъ and others.

Would you care to explain why those letters are B'lgar? Are those letters brought from Volga???

Abre B'lgarche....... ne si vo Balgarija sea..... ti si vo nasha kashta bokluk eden.

Aj bidi pameten i mrsh ot tuka.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Is that the best you can come up with bre Tatare? These great 'discoveries' of yours may receive a few slaps on the back on a racist Bulgar forum, but here on this Macedonian forum you have made a pathetic entry with your misleading and deluded statements.

Did Asparuk the Gay bring those letters from Mongolia? Or was it Omurtag the Transvestite who drank water from the Volga and then dreamed the letters up?

Of all of Macedonia's enemies, you people are on par with the Greeks when it comes to the stupidity of your arguments.

[Risto the Great]

Did Asparuk the Gay bring those letters from Mongolia? Or was it Omurtag the Transvestite who drank water from the Volga and then dreamed the letters up?

I met a transvestite called Omurtag once. lol

[Soldier of Macedon]

Did it have a sister with the alias of ATGay?

[Risto the Great]

Did it have a sister with the alias of ATGay?

Yeah, she was singing Makedonsko Devojce to me .... riding bareback on a horse from the Volga.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Slovak, in which century do you think the definite article first developed? I know of Macedonian texts dating from the 16th century where it is used, how much earlier than that could it have been?

I read that the definite article started to appear in around 12th century, but at that time it was still the demonstrative pronoun that was used in postposition instead of preposition like in other languages. In Slovak for example, the pronoun still exists today as ten, tá, to, or in Serbian as taj, ta, to. They are of coursed changed (declined) by cases. The pronoun was first too declined in Macedonian and Bulgarian after it entered postposition. So for example место то which is in the Nominative case could be места того in the Genitive case or месту тому in the Dative case. At some point cases were dropped and the pronoun became the article. In almost all Indo-European languages today that use a definite article the article almost always evolved from the demonstrative pronoun. As for when the usage of the definite article was definite? I can't say. It was in the Late Medieval period at least (13th-15th century).

Some more information on the definite article in Macedonian.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=whvZxiXKkNEC&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=Macedonian,+definitive+article,+13th+century&source=bl&ots=KTaZbMNJQU&sig=3tZZ52grwWwjDwCrna5691isgcw&hl=en&ei=yUwrS6rpNYPasgOE8MDWAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CBsQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=macedonian&f=false

[Risto the Great]

The last paragraph talks about Slavonic languages that arrived in the Mediterranean before the 5th century. The ones subject to the longest and strongest areal interference developed this. So that Balkan index which list Macedonian as the most Balkan language is yet another indicator of the duration of time the language would take to change and naturally the duration of existence of the people.

Funny to think, but the definite article may well be the defining fact that highlights how the Macedonians have existed far beyond the times most academics appear to believe.

Thanks SoM

[Soldier of Macedon]

They can't even make their own minds up about when the Slavonic languages 'arrived', because they never just 'arrived', for a long time now I have been of the opinion that whatever languages/dialects/words did arrived during the 6th century had pre-existing ties with the Balkan languages, particularly Thracian.

If the definite article in Macedonian stems from its long duration of local influence in the Balkans, and if this feature first appears in OCS texts from the 9th-13th centuries, there may be a case to argue that such a feature has existed since the advent of OCS letters in the 9th century but was avoided in religious texts for the purpose of greater intelligibility with the other related tongues in Europe. This is something that you have previously suggested yourself RtG, I think we should delve further into this possibility.

When does it first appear in Albanian and Romance languages?

[Onur]

The oppressors imposed the Turkish language and the Eastern culture in the conquered lands. Furthermore the Turkish people settled in some regions, a situation which encouraged the spread and strengthening of the influence of Turkish on Bulgarian in those regions. There are lots of traces that reveal such influence. Most of the villages and towns are full of Turkish names of streets, market places and neighbourhoods.

***

clothes and adornments: 'елек', meaning 'sleeveless jacket' ; 'басма' - 'cotton print'; 'калпак' - 'cap'; 'халат' - 'dressing gown' ; 'тока' - 'buckle'; 'кеневир' - sacking, etc.

dishes, drinks and taste: 'геврек' - 'pretzel'(sesame ring); 'бюрек' - 'cheese pasty'; 'боза' - 'millet-ale'; 'хайвер' - 'spawn' ; 'пастърма'- 'dried meat'; 'саздърма' - 'corned-beef/pork' ; 'таратор' - 'cold yoghurt and chopped cucumber soup', etc.

agricultural life and furnishings: 'тенджера' - 'pot' ; 'торба' - 'sack / bag'; 'ютия' - 'iron'; 'тава' - 'large baking dish'; 'тиган' - 'pan'; 'кофа' - 'bucket'; 'казан' - 'cauldron'; 'бурма' - 'screw'; 'капан' - 'trap' and others .

These borrowings reveal the impact of the Turkish language on Bulgarian during the period of slavery.

http://www.inst.at/trans/16Nr/01_5/sakareva16.htm

"Turkish language imposed during the slavery"...

This is kinda overstatement. I can call that as "influence" rather than "impose" because most of the cities and towns created by the Turks in Bulgaria and obviously they named it with Turkish names. I mean, there was no cities with Bulgarian names existed before at "Kardzhali, Dzhebel, Dolni Chiflik". Turks didn't change the names of the cities which was present already, like Sofia. The city named Sofia was present already b4 Turks came there and Sofia remained as Sofia.

Same for the clothing, foods, agricultural items. There was no "gevrek, burek, boza, pasturma, tarator, basma, kazan, yogurt" with slavic names in Bulgaria before Turks came there. They learned all of these from us and they adopted Turkish names. It`s like current situation. In Turkey, we call hamburger as "hamburger" in Turkish because we learned it from Americans and we didn't change it`s English name. Or like Italian pizza, we call it as "pizza".

So this is not imposing, this is rather a result of an influence. Imposing was what the Russians did to their language after 19th century.


Btw this article is a good example for selective and biased thinking While author calls Turkish borrowings is "imposed during Turkish slavery" and "it wasn't possible to get rid all of them" but he says that French and German borrowings "enriched" Bulgarian language and Russian and English language just "influenced" them hehe

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is something interesting regarding the Razlog dialect (which is actually Macedonian):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razlog_dialect

- The first grammatical treatise of Modern Bulgarian published by Serbian scholar Vuk Karadzic in 1822 (Додатак к санктпетербургским сравнитељним pjeчницима свиjу jезика и нaрjечиjа c особитим огледом Бугарског jезика) is based on the grammatical and morphological characteristics of the Ralog dialect
- The first full grammar of Modern Bulgarian published by Bulgarian scholar Neofit Rilski in 1835 (Болгарска граматика) is also based on the grammatical and morphological characteristics of the Ralog dialect

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I always noticed how similar Bulgarian was to Russian. My baba visited Bulgaria in the late 80's and told me how many streets in Sofia were Russian named

[Soldier of Macedon]

Below are some pages from the first constitution of Bulgaria (1879), which was based on the Belgian model. Russian language translations are listed beside the Bulgarian text.




The flag of the Bulgarian volunteers in the Russo-Turkish War (cited earlier on the other thread), also has Russian influence.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8845

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Very interesting find SoM