Macedonian Music

[Spartan]

Kazantzidis is born and raised in Athens.
No roots from Grevena as far as i know.
He is of Pontic descent of course.

[osiris]

hello spartan do you know why pontian men wrap their dicks in newspaper every night.

[osiris]

because the know that newspapers make big things out of little things.

[Mygdon]

slovenec, so you are "zrinski" from Youtube?

[Onur]

Onur some of my favorite Turkish music. Some in greek as i could't find the original version

the only greek man i liked too bad his country didnt share his gift due to him being from Grevena a Pondiakos.

These are not Balkan style Makedonetz.

This is Aegean Anatolia and Istanbul style. Inhabitants of Greece didn't know this music `till Anatolian immigrants came there after 1920. After their immigration, they named their music as "Rembetiko"(music of Asia Minor, in their terms).

Also they created their instrument "Bouzuki" around 1930s i guess. Its based on the Turkish instrument "Oud".




Actually this is 19th century Ottoman tavern music of Anatolia. Most songs are about love, raki, hash, belly dance and sexy dancers

The language of these songs was Turkish. They wrote Greek lyrics after they immigrated to Greece. In turkey, we sing these songs with their original Turkish lyrics.





I know Stelios Kazanci(Kazanci was their Turkish name). These are some of his old records in Turkish;

Stelios Kazantzidis - Konyali (Central Anatolia style)

YouTube - Stelios Kazantzidis KonyalÄħ (ΚόνÎıÎħÎğης)

Stelios Kazantzidis - Oglan Oglan Kalk Gidelim

YouTube - Oglan Oglan Kalk Gidelim - Stelios Kazantzidis

The instrument at the start of the song is Turkish "Oud", not "Bouzuki"...

[slovenec zrinski]

This is Hanka performing Osman Pasa when she was in Sweden. The best concert I have attended (I knowthe title says Macedonian music so you can remove this link if you want to)

YouTube - Hanka Paldum- Zaplakala ĊĦećer Đula Osman PaĊĦe


This is one of my fav singers. Mary Minas from Toronto and Nevoleni

YouTube - Mary Minas- Mome Mi Te Falat

YouTube - Mary Minas- Ne Odi Djemo

[slovenec zrinski]

And almost forgot, yes Artemi...zrinski from youtube.
Pozdrav

[Onur]

And this is Turkish singers performing these songs in their original Turkish lyrics;

Two songs here. Istanbul style. These songs composed between the year 1780-1900;

YouTube - CANDAN ER�‡ETÄ°N £££ Kadifeden Kesesi & Yedikule ZindanlarÄħ

Sumer Ezgu - Izmir'in kavaklari(Composed around 1870-1885)

YouTube - (S�ĵmer Ezg�ĵ) Izmir'in kavaklari

This is Zeybek(my avatar picture) folk song from Izmir.

Same song "Izmir'in kavaklari" performed by Anatolia immigrants in Greece. These are the people who got separated from us and then assimilated

YouTube - Thria Tsakitzis - Harman geri







I know that Greeks performs same songs with Greek lyrics and ofc some of them blatantly claim this as their own Greek music which is totally bullshit. This music was our common culture with Anatolia immigrants as i don't separate these people from the Turks in Turkey. Then the gypsies and Ethiopians in Greece called this as "Rembetiko" music of Turkosporos"(The offsprings of Turks)

[slovenec zrinski]

Osman Aga Oro by Petrovski:

YouTube - Kočo Petrovski- Osman Aga/Kočovo

Osman Aga by Usnija (serbian language)

YouTube - Usnija RedĊ�epova- Osman Aga

Osman Aga by the Swedish Macedonian band Andra Generationen (Vtora Generacija)

YouTube - Andra Generationen- K�¤rlekens Land (Osman Aga)

This seems to be an all balkan song

[Makedonetz]

Onur just for you ;D

my fav (they must of invented Yoga!)

YouTube - Turkish Zeybek Music " Y�ĥr�ĵk Ali Zeybegi"

YouTube - Zeybek Dance *** �‡�–KERTME ***

[Onur]

Onur just for you ;D

my fav (they must of invented Yoga!)

Hehe thanks a lot.

First video is some kind of modernized Zeybek dance, its not the original.

Second one is authentic original style with 19th century clothing of when they kicked out Greeks from Izmir in 1922.
These weren't soldiers. These were regular folks who formed gangs to end Greek oppression.

[Makedonetz]

So were the Zeybek a sort of partisani like we had in macedonia? That stance was it a fighting stance? Yeah not too hard to beat a greek especially when they send in their fighters HA!

[Spartan]

Also they created their instrument "Bouzuki" around 1930s i guess. Its based on the Turkish instrument "Oud".

I agree with all this, but i believe the bouzouki was born far earlier in what today is considered Turkey.

The language of these songs was Turkish. They wrote Greek lyrics after they immigrated to Greece. In turkey, we sing these songs with their original Turkish lyrics.

Are you talking about rebetika?

@Osiris
Nice one! lol

[Onur]

I agree with all this, but i believe the bouzouki was born far earlier in what today is considered Turkey.


Are you talking about rebetika?

Nope, there is no record of "Bouzuki" in Turkey. Anatolian immigrants probably created it in Greece by using "Oud" as a base for it around 1930s.

Also the Greek dance "Sirtaki" is also a mix of Aegean Anatolia "Zeybek dance" and Blacksea side(Pontus in Greek) dance Horon,Horos.




Aegean people was playing Zeybek only and Pontus people was playing Horos but when so-called Greeks immigrated to Greece, they probably united there and started to go tavernas together and then they created "Sirtaki" which is a mix of both. "Sirtaki" has much faster rhythm than Aegean Zeybek and they probably needed i thinner sounding instrument then "Oud" which could be much more suitable to the faster pace of "Sirtaki". Then "Bouzuki" born.


This is just my theory but probably its happened like this in Greece because neither Aegean Zeybek nor Horos of Blacksea changed here. Its same as 200 year b4. This unification of both style only happened in Greece and its not difficult for a Turk to estimate how it evolved since we observe both old and new styles here.

Btw, When i said Aegean people, i didn't refer Greek immigrants only. This music performed and listened by Muslims, Jews, Christians, literally everyone. I mean taverns was open for everyone.



Government officers referred relatively good and clean places as "taverna" but worst ones as "hashish den" Ofc people wasn't putting tobacco only in thier "Nargiles"

I read a book about the "Tavern life of 19th century Ottoman Empire" earlier and it was so funny to read. I remembered that i wished that i could live in those times. Women, hash, belly dancers, raki and music all day long

[Spartan]

This is just my theory.

Well Im glad you stated this, because thats all it is..... (your theory).

In Greece, this instrument was known as the pandura or pandourion, also called the "trichordo" because it had three strings; it was the first fretted instrument known, forerunner of the various families of lutes worldwide. The source of our knowledge about this instrument is the Mantineia marble (4th century BC, now exhibited at the National Archaeological Museum of Athens), depicting the mythical contest between Apollo and Marsyas, where a pandouris is being played by a muse seated on a rock.

From Byzantine times it was called pandouras and then tambouras (Elizabeth Jeffreys,John Haldon,Robin Cormack, The Oxford Handbook of Byzantine Studies, Oxford University Press, 2008, p928. Cf. Nikos Maliaras, Byzantina mousika organa, EPN 1023, ISΒN 978-960-7554-44-4). The modern Turkish Tanbur is practically identical to the ancient Greek pandouris. On display in the National Historical Museum of Greece is the tambouras of a hero of the Greek revolution of 1821, General Makriyiannis. This tambouras bears the main morphological characteristics of the bouzouki used by the Rebetes.

The Tambouras was still in use in Greece mainland during 19th century. Modern Bouzouki which is a mix of tambouras and mandolino invented by Greek luthiers (like Stathopoulos) was mostly used by the Greeks living in Asia Minor (now Turkey). This explains the origin of the word "bouzouki."

An explanation for the origin of both the word "bouzouki" and the "bozouk saz" is that it comes from persian word "bozorg", or more precisely "tambur-e bozorg" or "tambur-i bozorg" which means "big tambouras" (the word "saz" is also persian and means "instrument"). In Greek and Turkish the sound "rg" became "k" for linguistic reasons. This explanation based on the size of the instrument seems more logical than the explanation based on the word "bozouk" meaning "broken", because all the different names of the saz specify the size of the instruments.

As far as the theory based on the word "bozouk" meaning "broken" is concerned : The Turkish saz belongs to the same family of instruments as the tambouras. A medium-sized kind of saz is called a bozouk saz. Bozuk in Turkish means "broken, not functioning, modified." Here it is used in order to specify the size of the instrument. It is concluded, therefore, that the bouzouki has been named after the jargon of the Turkish saz by the Greeks living in Asia Minor(now Turkey). An alternative popular etymology maintains that the word bozouk was used because different tunings (the Turkish 'düzen') are required for the instrument to play in different musical scales (known as Dromoi in Greek, Maqam (pl. Maqamat) in Arabic). A tuning known as the bozuk düzen (broken tuning) still exists in Greek folk music.

The bouzouki is also related to the Arabic buzuq. As "buzuq" does not mean anything in Arabic, the explanation based on persian word seems more likely to be true than any other one.

The early bouzoukia were mostly three-string (trichordo), with three courses (six strings in three pairs) and were tuned in different ways, as to the scale one wanted to play.

After the late 1950s, four-course (Tetrachordo) bouzoukia started to appear. The four-course bouzouki was made popular by Manolis Chiotis. Chiotis also used a tuning akin to standard guitar tuning, which made it easier for guitarists to play bouzouki, even as it angered purists.

The Irish bouzouki, with four courses, a flatter back, and differently tuned from the Greek bouzouki, is a more recent development, dating back to the 1960s.


The instruments used in Rebetiko music were invented in Asia minor, prior to the creation of Turkey. Although i will agree with you that the music was not named 'Rebetika' until the refugees came over.

Ofc people wasn't putting tobacco only in thier "Nargiles"

I read a book about the "Tavern life of 19th century Ottoman Empire" earlier and it was so funny to read. Man, i wished that i could live in those times. Women, hash, belly dancers, raki and music all day long

I cant lie, ive always been fascinated by this time period, and the craze of 'Rembetika" that took over greece in the 30s and 40s.
I would have loved to live it as well....( In Greece though )

Also, if I may ask.... Was Kazantzidis music loved in turkey as well?
How big was he?
In Greece he is regarded as the greatest singer/artist of all time.