France and ethnic statistics taboo

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  • Bratot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2855

    France and ethnic statistics taboo

    Obviously the tutor of the Greek policy of ethnic discrimination is France, actually nobody talks on this subject but everyone is lecturing the Macedonians how should they manage their "multicultural" society.

    Why wouldn't we follow the example of such "high civilized" western societies like France itself since Greece is being their excellent student in practice.


    France urged to ease ethnic statistics taboo

    AFP - The French government was Friday urged to ease its taboo on statistics on ethnic origin in a report commissioned by President Nicolas Sarkozy's "diversity tsar" to look at ways of fighting discrimination.

    The report said France's ban on officially classifying people by ethnicity or asking questions in the national census about their race or origins should be maintained.
    But it recommended that censuses should henceforth include a question on the nationality or place of birth of people's parents, an apparently minor change but for France a major easing of its staunch opposition to ethnic statistics.

    "It is the only way of being able to follow the course of the children of immigrants, to see what happens to them, what are their destinies... their exposure to discrimination," said Francois Heran.

    Heran, the former head of national demographics institute, led the 27-strong committee that on Friday presented its report to Yazid Sabeg, a businessman of Algerian origin appointed by Sarkozy to advise him on fighting discrimination.

    Sabeg sparked a heated political row when he suggested as he commissioned the report last year that the ban on ethnic statistics should perhaps be lifted.

    Other countries have detailed figures on the ethnic make-up of their populations but these are largely banned in the French republic which is based on the idea that all citizens are equal and free from distinctions of race or religion.

    In reality French citizens or residents of foreign origin are often subjected to racism and discrimination, which in part led to the riots that broke out in 2005 in high-immigrant suburbs across the country.

    Sarkozy has argued that the lack of statistics on France's ethnic groups frustrates attempts to measure and deal with inequality.

    The new report comes amid a debate on national identity that has divided France.

    Critics argue that it is fomenting anti-foreigner and anti-Muslim sentiment and is little more than a ploy by the rightwinger Sarkozy to grab far-right votes in regional elections to be held next month.

    The government is due to hold a seminar next Monday to consider its conclusions from the national identity debate.


    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15660

    #2
    Very interesting article.
    It puts France in the same category as Greece. Which is nothing to boast about.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Onur
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 2389

      #3
      Actually France wasnt that different than Balkan countries in terms of ethnic composition. Some people close to German border was speaking German like language and some others was speaking half Spanish, half French but they fixed the problem by forcing everyone to speak French and adopt French identity before WW-2. Today, spoken French in Paris and other regions are quite different tough.

      It looks like they want to be sure that same policy will be active for current Arab and African immigrants too.
      Last edited by Onur; 05-15-2010, 07:18 PM.

      Comment

      • Mastika
        Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 503

        #4
        France needs to move in the world of the 21st century. Sadly the diversity of France from the period 1789-1960s plummeted. Many dialects were slowly being lost and the population was encouraged to be more homogenous. Minority rights were denied and activists were made to look like extremists. Immigrants have increased the diversity of the country, however if serious changes are not made then eventually these people will probably to be assimilated into French society, I have seen this happen to many of my own cousins living in France. As Risto says, France is in the same boat as Greece.

        France needs to look to countries such as Australia for a good multicultural model and make sure that they adapt to the 21st century.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13675

          #5
          France should indeed move into the 21st century and recognise the existence of their ethnic minorities, but I wouldn't set any expectations on France to lose its status as the nation-state of the French people, a fact which all ethnic minorities should recognise and respect.

          Currently though, France is no better than the racist state to the south of Macedonia.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Onur
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 2389

            #6
            Originally posted by Mastika View Post
            France needs to move in the world of the 21st century. Sadly the diversity of France from the period 1789-1960s plummeted. Many dialects were slowly being lost and the population was encouraged to be more homogenous. Minority rights were denied and activists were made to look like extremists. Immigrants have increased the diversity of the country, however if serious changes are not made then eventually these people will probably to be assimilated into French society, I have seen this happen to many of my own cousins living in France. As Risto says, France is in the same boat as Greece.

            France needs to look to countries such as Australia for a good multicultural model and make sure that they adapt to the 21st century.


            Let me tell you an example from France;

            You know, after WW-1, lots of Armenians migrated to France from Turkey. Today, their children cant even speak single word of Armenian and have French names like "Jean Pierre" etc. but they are harshly criticizing Turkey about the rights of Armenian community here.

            On the other hand, Armenians in Turkey got proper Armenian names and they can speak Armenian fluently because they are getting educated in Armenian schools here. Also, Armenian citizens of Turkey are not happy about comments of diaspora either but when they express this, this time diaspora accuse them with being a spy of Turkish government :S

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13675

              #7
              Originally posted by Onur
              On the other hand, Armenians in Turkey got proper Armenian names and they can speak Armenian fluently because they are getting educated in Armenian schools here.
              That is a very interesting and valid parallel Onur.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Onur
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 2389

                #8
                Turkish Armenian Community Says; No Need To Rake Up The Past

                The leader of Armenian community in Turkey, who was received by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, described the incidents of 1915 as "mutual affliction of close friends who were made hostile to each other," saying, "there was no need to rake up the past.

                Following his meeting with Erdogan in Ankara, Bedros Sirinoglu said, " my grandfather died during the incidents of 1915. But there is no need to rake up the past and call it a genocide."

                "Incidents of 1915 sowed discord between two close friends who loved each other," Sirinoglu said.

                "It was a row of a hundred years ago and it created mistrust. We have to forget it and look forward," he said.

                Turkey strongly rejects genocide allegations and regards the events as civil strife in wartime which claimed lives of many Turks and Armenians.

                When asked about the Armenian population before 1915 and today, Sirinoglu said that the population was 1.5 million at that time. However, he said a significant part of Armenians migrated to several countries such as Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Iraq and France and added that both Turkish and Armenian peoples suffered from what happened a hundred years ago.

                "If we dredge up (the incidents of 1915), we will have to stay in dark," he said.

                "It has been a hundred years. No need to hold a grudge. Such things have happened in the world such as wars. But they have all been covered up. But I do not know why, these incidents between Turkish people and Armenians living in Ottoman state are still not covered."

                He also said the Armenians felt safe in Turkey and that they had no complaint to that effect. When asked how the Armenian diaspora reacts to his remarks, Şirinoğlu said diaspora representatives should come and see how Armenians live in Turkey. “Those people who have been away from their country for a long time should come and see Armenian property and schools, they should see how Armenians live in Turkey and then they should decide,” he said.

                Asked if he was hopeful about the protocols signed by Turkey and Armenian in October 2009 to normalize relations, Sirinoglu said, "I am hopeful because I believe Turkey and Armenia would learn lessons from the past."





                One of Armenian community leaders in Turkey made this announcement 2 months ago. After that, all diaspora Armenians swear to him and accused him by being a spy.

                Like i said above, the one who accuse him in France cant even speak single word of Armenian and they are also converted as Catholics while Armenians in Turkey are Orthodox for 1000+ years and still speaks Armenian fluently. Most of diaspora Armenians are rich people while their kinsmen in Armenia starving to death because of poverty. Only thing they know about being Armenian is Turkish hate and false genocide claims, nothing else because thats their whole "Armenian" conception.
                Last edited by Onur; 05-16-2010, 01:37 PM.

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