In case you don't know ... it is war!

[Risto the Great]

Macedonians are facing attacks on their identity on a daily basis and are almost thankful for the attention. In this age of enlightenment it is extremely concerning that some people are failing to comprehend the significance of the many minuscule plays with words and actions that (on their own) would not worry a normal Macedonian. The agenda being perpetrated against Macedonia and Macedonians is insidious and extremely damaging to the psyche of Macedonians. They are barely aware of the impact until all is quite possibly too late.

As a child, I would describe myself as being Macedonian. Greeks would ask if it was "Greek Macedonian" and I would simply say "Macedonian". They would then say "oh, you must be Yugoslav Macedonian then". They knew even less about Macedonian history back then than they do now.

Thirty years later the world appears to know of FYROMIANS and Macedonians and Skopjans. None of the terms seem to have the same meaning as what they did 20 years ago.

The notion of a "constitutional name" is something that Macedonia can claim as a "search term" in Google. One has to go about 3 pages in on Google before Macedonia and it's "constitutional name" is sharing internet space with any other nation. Is this normal? Obviously not as no other country in the world shares a similar pre-occupation with this unusual way of looking at one's identity. A country has a name which stems from and also define's its identity. The constitution of a country will refer to that name. In Macedonia's case, it would appear that Macedonians need to look at their constitution in order to be sure what their name is. This is not the same as the pot calling the kettle black as some would like to suggest. It is more like the pot looking at the kettle's constitution before it can begin to call the kettle anything. If the kettle is "black", why look anywhere else. If a Macedonian is Macedonian, why refer to the constitution unless there is an intention to have it changed.

I fell into this trap a while ago. Macedonia's constitution spells out the name of the country. Far too many Macedonian politicians claim an adherence to the constitutional name of Macedonia rather than Macedonia.

"I sellout politician hereby confirm that I will always respect the constitutional name of Macedonia. "

Some might like everything in the above text (other than the "sellout" part). Others might realise that "Macedonia" is optional and that the "constitutional name" is always able to be changed. Just like Macedonia's constitution has already been changed in a fashion which undermines the sovereignty of the nation and the Macedonian people. It can happen with the right (or wrong) influence again.

What is so difficult about Macedonians calling themselves Macedonian and their country Macedonia? Is it that offensive to other people that we need to remind people that it is a republic. After being denied their own nation for so many lifetimes, do Macedonians need to reassure themselves that they are indeed a republic? Some refer to the "Republic of Macedonia" so as to distinguish it from occupied regions of Macedonia in neighbouring countries. They are not Macedonia, they now have composite names, we have Greek occupied Macedonia and Bulgarian occupied Macedonia amongst others. We only have one Macedonia and we need to be much more militant about it.

I am a Macedonian and the cultural heritage of my people remains in Macedonia. In Macedonia you will find Macedonians. Macedonians are proud, friendly people and enjoy being treated with dignity. Just like everyone else in the world.

I might be a little crazy about this but am willing to ease up a little when the pendulum swings a little in Macedonia's favour. Until then, I strongly urge all Macedonians to be far less forgiving in all matters pertaining to our identity. We must assert our identity at every opportunity because ... we are most definitely at war for our identity. Sadly, our enemies are are our own people as well as outsiders who wish to negate us. Rest assured, those who seek to negate us do it for personal gain and can never be regarded as good Macedonians or friends of Macedonians.

Sadly it is indeed "us" versus "them" and all Macedonians need to make a choice. I hope you can join "us" at the MTO!

[Daskalot]

Strong words and well put RtG!

[George S.]

well said rtg i never thought the big problem is we don't recognise ourselves enough to care
that countries l;ike greece would want to appropriate our name & history.(only if we let them)

[Vangelovski]

Sadly it is indeed "us" versus "them" and all Macedonians need to make a choice. I hope you can join "us" at the MTO!

Just in case someone missed it the first time

[julie]

Amen, well said RTG

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Nice job Risto.

[blackcactus]

we are most definitely at war for our identity

Yes we are

[fyrOM]

Sadly RTG what you say is true that as a constitution can be change so can a constitutional name.

Without having to go elsewhere on this site alone there have been many references about the lies told about the Macedonians and their identity. Like a spider web has small branches which support each other so to a big lie has little lies which support each other to form the body of the big lie but also like every spider web it all begins with one single thread or one core single lie and all else hangs from it.

In the case of the Macedonians the core question is were the ancient Macedonians of Alexanders time of Greek origin or not. This is it. All other issues become mute.

Some in the past have tried to sidestep this question and talk about Macedonians like you and I living in this century or that century as proof we saw ourselves as Macedonians back then. Although what has been found is true it will never solve the whole issue.

This investigation has also had the form of exposing the idiocies of the Greek lies like we became Macedonians out of titos idea in the 1940s. Having failed to really convince anyone of this date given the mountain of evidence that the Macedonians referred to themselves as Macedonians well ie centuries before this date the Greeks have devised a series of fall back dates. Whichever date the Greeks fall back to it is just another battle and not the war.

They would no doubt be aware of some of the historical data even the MTO has been able to find let alone if access to greater archives was available…in short the truth cannot be stopped…this is why they were quick to change their position and allow RoM to use the word Macedonia so long as some qualifier was added. The Greeks know their last fallback position has to be to admit we have been in Macedonia for centuries and so the core of their argument is we can be a KIND of Macedonian but not THE Macedonians who according to them were Greek.

Arguments that no one is truly pure again do not answer the core question or lie…are we Greek plus something else…and if so then as the Greeks say be happy to embrace you Greek side and stop your whinging.

Everything goes back to the core question…solve it and prove it and you will have solved everything about the Macedonian name issue.

[Risto the Great]

In the case of the Macedonians the core question is were the ancient Macedonians of Alexanders time of Greek origin or not. This is it. All other issues become mute.

OM, you have fallen into a trap which does not exist.The only thing we can say without doubt about the ancient Macedonians is that they conquered the Greek city states. The Macedonians made them form a league and the Macedonians were not part of that league, they were merely the ruler of that league.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1747

Whilst the Germans and the British carried the torch for the ancient Hellenes in modern times, it was only the Macedonians who carried the torch for the ancient Macedonians.

Hungarians have their narrative about their history which lasts for over 1000 years in their present location. Are they in any way lesser than Macedonians or any other nations in Europe? I am positive they could rename themselves Pannonia tomorrow if they wanted and would be understood as having a legitimate claim on the name. The difference being that Macedonians have always carried the torch for Macedonians.

Greeks know the stupidity of trying to use ancient arguments. They will never do it at diplomatic levels for fear of being labelled crazy.

But you want some proof about some people of 2000 years ago before you can confidently call yourself Macedonian. Think about what side of the line you are on.

[Dimko-piperkata]

The only thing we can say without doubt about the ancient Macedonians is that they conquered the Greek city states.

in the ancient time the term "greek" does not exist.

[indigen]

Macedonians are facing attacks on their identity on a daily basis and are almost thankful for the attention. In this age of enlightenment it is extremely concerning that some people are failing to comprehend the significance of the many minuscule plays with words and actions that (on their own) would not worry a normal Macedonian. The agenda being perpetrated against Macedonia and Macedonians is insidious and extremely damaging to the psyche of Macedonians. They are barely aware of the impact until all is quite possibly too late.

As a child, I would describe myself as being Macedonian. Greeks would ask if it was "Greek Macedonian" and I would simply say "Macedonian". They would then say "oh, you must be Yugoslav Macedonian then". They knew even less about Macedonian history back then than they do now.

Thirty years later the world appears to know of FYROMIANS and Macedonians and Skopjans. None of the terms seem to have the same meaning as what they did 20 years ago.

The notion of a "constitutional name" is something that Macedonia can claim as a "search term" in Google. One has to go about 3 pages in on Google before Macedonia and it's "constitutional name" is sharing internet space with any other nation. Is this normal? Obviously not as no other country in the world shares a similar pre-occupation with this unusual way of looking at one's identity. A country has a name which stems from and also define's its identity. The constitution of a country will refer to that name. In Macedonia's case, it would appear that Macedonians need to look at their constitution in order to be sure what their name is. This is not the same as the pot calling the kettle black as some would like to suggest. It is more like the pot looking at the kettle's constitution before it can begin to call the kettle anything. If the kettle is "black", why look anywhere else. If a Macedonian is Macedonian, why refer to the constitution unless there is an intention to have it changed.

I fell into this trap a while ago. Macedonia's constitution spells out the name of the country. Far too many Macedonian politicians claim an adherence to the constitutional name of Macedonia rather than Macedonia.

"I sellout politician hereby confirm that I will always respect the constitutional name of Macedonia. "

Some might like everything in the above text (other than the "sellout" part). Others might realise that "Macedonia" is optional and that the "constitutional name" is always able to be changed. Just like Macedonia's constitution has already been changed in a fashion which undermines the sovereignty of the nation and the Macedonian people. It can happen with the right (or wrong) influence again.

What is so difficult about Macedonians calling themselves Macedonian and their country Macedonia? Is it that offensive to other people that we need to remind people that it is a republic. After being denied their own nation for so many lifetimes, do Macedonians need to reassure themselves that they are indeed a republic? Some refer to the "Republic of Macedonia" so as to distinguish it from occupied regions of Macedonia in neighbouring countries. They are not Macedonia, they now have composite names, we have Greek occupied Macedonia and Bulgarian occupied Macedonia amongst others. We only have one Macedonia and we need to be much more militant about it.

I am a Macedonian and the cultural heritage of my people remains in Macedonia. In Macedonia you will find Macedonians. Macedonians are proud, friendly people and enjoy being treated with dignity. Just like everyone else in the world.

I might be a little crazy about this but am willing to ease up a little when the pendulum swings a little in Macedonia's favour. Until then, I strongly urge all Macedonians to be far less forgiving in all matters pertaining to our identity. We must assert our identity at every opportunity because ... we are most definitely at war for our identity. Sadly, our enemies are are our own people as well as outsiders who wish to negate us. Rest assured, those who seek to negate us do it for personal gain and can never be regarded as good Macedonians or friends of Macedonians.

Sadly it is indeed "us" versus "them" and all Macedonians need to make a choice. I hope you can join "us" at the MTO!

Well said, RTG! This post deserves to be a sticky and to be circulated more widely. Please do what needs to be done and get it spread around as this message needs to reach a wider audience amongst Macedonians!!! A place on the MTO front page would be a good start.

So pochit,
I.

[indigen]

Here are some questions you may wish to ask yourself:

Why is it the universal norm to refer to states under their conventional short form name, whereas in Macedonia, its vassal politicians (and their representatives) have instigated a campaign to refer to Macedonia under its conventional long form name?

What is a “constitutional name”?

What role does the constitution play in relation to the name of a state?

Is the name of a state derived from its constitution, or does the constitution simply acknowledge the cultural/identity norm which already exists? Which of these two is relevant to the Macedonian case?

Why “Republic of Macedonia” instead of “Macedonia”?

I bring forward from another related thread these well summed up points made by Vangelovski.

[Risto the Great]

in the ancient time the term "greek" does not exist.

I actually thought about that, Hellenic or Hellenes is more appropriate... But you know what, the modern Greeks have fought very hard for that term and they can have it. No matter how much we legitimately question their connections to those people.

The problem is that we Macedonians have far more important problems. It is our own people and our pathetic self-created inferiority complex. We are indeed Macedonians, what have we done to assert ourselves lately?

[Risto the Great]

Please do what needs to be done and get it spread around as this message needs to reach a wider audience amongst Macedonians!!!

Thanks Indigen, I am sure many Macedonians feel patriotic but have paid little thought to the logical consequences of their actions (or inactions). There is still hope but many need educating about how to express/convey themselves in this war.

[indigen]

RTG, the WAR is moving very, very fast and is NOT going our Macedonian way.

Check some of the linked articles on http://www.tv-sonce.com/ and one will be able to observe some very disturbing developments. The following is one: Има решение за името, да ги послушаме Американците! (Vecer, which is supposed to be aligned to the "patriotic" DPMNE government!).