Albanianization in Macedonia

[Krivan]

THe macedonian govt should build up it's army,with more arms & numbers.It's not a matter if but when.The fanatics will act first.

I disagree, it's better to militarize the police than further militarize the military. Our military don't really matter since no country can realistically invade us in the 21st century nor if we were invaded we'd have much of a chance defending against a country like Greece who has 1,600 tanks anyhow.

Our police, on the other hand, can be used much more effectively to control the Albanians and to crush any possible nationalist-fascist uprisings by Albanians.

America is an excellent model to follow:

[Phoenix]

Lots of statistics Bugi, yet the Albanians refuse to participate in a census. Why?

...because they can't add their visiting Swiss/German/Italian/Kosovo relatives to their numbers, nor the 1st and 2nd generation of dead relatives and the clearly fabricated 'citizens'...

It's a form of 'creative accounting' that puts your profession to shame Risto...

[George S.]

Both need to be upgraded to handle any insurgency.THere is an american saying don't count yor chickens until they are hatched.Our model should be similar to israels defence.They have both military & Police.You don't send in police where clearly military should be involved.At the moment it makes sense to build up both military & police.Both need to be built up in a sovereign country.Wisfull thinking that just the police can be used to fight the albanians & to restore order.Just think who the uck are & the ANA then think about what police will do a military exercise.Police is police & military is military.Think how in the past the military uncovered huge cache of arms,terrorists were trying to blow up skopje & the military stopped it.I would recommend police to protect the state to restore law & order not engage in military combat unless it's in tandem with the military.

[Zarni]

George there is no doubt the Macedonian Military docrine is all about Special Op Forces and the Police

[Phoenix]

George there is no doubt the Macedonian Military docrine is all about Special Op Forces and the Police

It's the political will to effectively use those assets that's missing.

[George S.]

Phoenix is right & just remember who was training the terrorists of 2001 ex us army generals.Use of effectively.Where is the constant training & preparedness no where to be seen.
Also isn't it funny how you have both in the army & in the police of albanians .They would really have a cxonflict of interst i'm sure they wouldn't be fighting for macedonia.Probably stab or shoot you in the back can you really trust them.

[Zarni]

I am talking about government sponsored projects like Skopje 2014 till giving a uniform and a gun to someone with a criminal background so he could kill people.

Doesn't the Framework Agreement position former Terrorists with a Government payed salary and amnesty their crimes
Or what about Public Administration uqilaified Albanians making up a ethnic quota again Ohrid Framework Agreement

macedonian policeman with a criminal background kills 2 albanian youths

Albanians thugs and criminals assault and carry weapons in a public space ignore demands by Police to stop

In the United State and Australia both these acts are all serious jail time crimes
Again Ethnic Macedonians and Albanians have a equal representation in the Police again Ohrd Accord

Dont follow Milosevic,the only loser would be only the macedonians...

Milo must have raped you some time in you life time, the Macedonian Security security apparatus models itself on Special Ops and Police Inteliigance just like Israel obviously without the staked Military arsenal
We are more then capable of taking out your criminal behinds in suburban stings, since 2006 ther have been many.

Lots of statistics Bugi, yet the Albanians refuse to participate in a census. Why?

Because this year's census started legitimately with all checks and accountable actions the Albanins could not lie and swindle numbers and the process.
They even demanded Albanian only participation in the census collection

Im talking about government sponsored projects like Skopje 2014

What is your point you prefer an Albanian National Hero in Skopje's Centre yes offcourse you do
Macedonia represents the Majority and Macedonian culture first and foremost don't like leave our Country

Albanians are a minority in our Country you seek bi-national State, succession based on the Kosov model from the 1980's with the clear goal of the Destruction of the State and Territorial aspiration being a Greater Albania

We will not let you we deserve thge right what our forefather died for
Macedonian represent the dreams and aspirations of us all

GOT IT

Forever playing the human rights card with no obligation to the Macedonian State

[Phoenix]

Phoenix is right & just remember who was training the terrorists of 2001 ex us army generals.Use of effectively.Where is the constant training & preparedness no where to be seen.
Also isn't it funny how you have both in the army & in the police of albanians .They would really have a cxonflict of interst i'm sure they wouldn't be fighting for macedonia.

GS, I think the training has been ongoing for the last 15 years, marked by the rotation of SF units in Iraq and now Afghanistan.
I understand that most people here are totally against Macedonia's involvement in Iraq (US operation) and Afghanistan (NATO operation) but that experience will be vital if there's ever another shiptar incursion/uprising...I hope that the same political will that sends Macedonian forces to overseas operations is used to put down a repeat of 2001 in Macedonia in a swift and brutal fashion.

[George S.]

i think there are benefits from active participation.I think it's their choice to participate.Even though we in the diaspora don't like it the macedonians have proved themselves in combat they are virtually able to tackle any insurgency that may arise in macedonia.I reckon the albanians haven't really learned anything in 2001 i'm sure that they aren't even cooperating with macedonians unless it's for themselves more than likely affects macedonian sovereignity.This sort of thing goes to the heart of the matter & it has to be sttled sooner than later.I think the albanians need to have their arse whipped to show them who is boss in macedonia it's as simple as that other wise the'll be asking for more & more rights which belong to macedonians.

[Zarni]

Operation Mountain Storm was a example but that was 2007 time forgets

[Brian]

so before you knew about the Vergina sun-that was found in the 1970's,the ethnic macedonians didint have a national flag?

See what I mean. You ignore reality and pretend you don't know when it suits you.

1. IF there was an ethnic Macedonian flag before or not is irrelevant.
I was talking to you about respecting the State flag and that it is NOT an ethnic Macedonian flag.

2. In your Albanian schools or Albanian groups do they teach you ANYTHING not Albanian? The current State flag was created AFTER Macedonia left Yugoslavia - it NEVER existed before it cannot be ethnic flag. It is a totally new flag for the Macedonian state and ALL citizens regardless of ethnicity.
I told you NOT Albanian DOES NOT mean ethnic Macedonian.

3. The Independence Day is when Macedonia left Yugoslavia which means EVERY Macedonia citizen regardless of ethnicity got independence from Yugoslavia including the ethnic Albanians. The holiday has NOTHING to do with being ethnic Macedonian.

So now you tell me why ethnic Albanians as citizens of Macedonia cannot celebrate a NON-ETHNIC Macedonian day using a NON-ETHNIC Macedonian flag?

I told you your answer before - either Albanians are too stupid to understand NOT Albanian DOES NOT mean ethnic Macedonian or the real reason is Albanians do not want to be Macedonian citizens and do not recognise the Macedonian state and are still waiting to be independent when Greater Albania can be formed in which case ALL ethnic Albanian politicians and ANY official position person (eg army, police, government administration, school, or ANY government job) is guilty of treason and should be jailed.

Croats in Bosnia are about 20%-they are a official nation-NOT minority in the country
Serbs are 30%-official constitutional national element in Bosnia

By you figures Croatian is 20%, Serb is 30% which means Bosnians is 40%.

Did I not say before they are approximately the same number - ratio of 20 to 30 to 40 ie 1/3 each? When different groups are approximately the SAME SIZE do you think maybe they will share power.

In you BS Albanian figures 25% (but I bet it can be proven you are no more than 17%) is NOT the same as the Croatian 20% - you are LESS in ratio. You are NOT SAME SIZE approximately with Macedonians so you DO NOT deserve same power. When the Albanian population is 40% or more then maybe you have a claim.

so how come Macedonia cant become the country of the macedonian and albanian people?

It already is a country of Macedonian citizens of all ethnic backgrounds.



I think you realize the double standards!

There is NO double standard. YOU are using BS logic!

Who do you think should have more power IF for example -

1. 25% Albanian 25% Macedonian 24% Roma 24% Vlach and 2% other.
Ratio is 1 : 1
or

2. 25% Albanian 9.33% Macedonian 10% Roma 10% Vlach 10% and because of immigration we have many other ethnic groups each abot 2 - 3% to make up the rest.
Ratio is 2.68 : 1

or

3. 25% Albanian 9.33% Macedonian and all other groups had 2 -3% each
This is more like the reality but reverse for Albanian/Macedonia.

or

4. 25% Albanian 67% Macedonian 8% other
Ratio is 1 : 2.68

In each example Albanian is 25% but I think you must agree the distribution of power is NOT the same in each example.

Example 4 is the current situation using Albanian BS statistics with a ratio of 2.68.

Example 2 has Macedonians as 9.33% but is the same ratio of 2.68.
Can you see how it would look if Macedonians with ONLY 9.33% started saying we want everything EXACTLY equal 50% to 50% with the Albanians and we want Albanian and Macedonian to be the ONLY 2 official languages and we demand to have 12.32% of all government jobs and Albanians can have only 25% of government jobs????

Would the Albanian people accept being told what to do by other group with ONLY 9.33%???

What if we had facial recognition system and prove Albanians are really 17% then we have ratio of 3.94 which means in the above example if 25% Albanian then Macedoniands are ONLY 6.35%. Would the Albanians accept being told what to do from a group with ONLY 6.35%??? Now do you see the double standard???


What if -
4. 67% Albanian 25% Macedonian 8% other

Would the Albanians feel more powerful or think they are EXACTLY the same as the Macedonians???

There is NO "double standard" but in you BS logic.

[Bugi]

Lots of statistics Bugi, yet the Albanians refuse to participate in a census. Why?

Because the ones who have a adress of living in the country,but work abroad and come at least once a year in Macedonia should be counted!

if we count them,our number will be 35%,which means more rights...but again,without them,we are still 27-28%
that is a metodology used in many censuses in Europe and on the balkans!

one more thing,this is from the 2002 census

age structure based on religion

now things are probably 50/50 in all age groups

WHICH MEANS THAT ONE DAY MACEDONIA WILL BE 50% ISLAMIC!-Macedonia in which your kids will live in
I would like to see how then you can state that Macedonia shouldnt be redefined,with a 50%-or more nonmacedonian population,to claim that it will belong firstly to macedonians then to the others,it's just racist!

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[Bugi]

I disagree, it's better to militarize the police than further militarize the military. Our military don't really matter since no country can realistically invade us in the 21st century nor if we were invaded we'd have much of a chance defending against a country like Greece who has 1,600 tanks anyhow.

Our police, on the other hand, can be used much more effectively to control the Albanians and to crush any possible nationalist-fascist uprisings by Albanians.

America is an excellent model to follow:

Your really think that you can crush two albanian states around you-one of which is a NATO member and a 30% albanian minority within your country?

If albanians want to revolt or something,no macedonian army-if there is one like there isn't can stop them!

Im telling you again,don't make the same mistake as Milosevic,if he ididnt decide to 'crush' the albanians,now Kosovo would probably be still under Serbia...Im telling you this for your sake.

[Niko777]

Another Macedonian beaten and robbed by Albanians

http://www.kirilica.com.mk/vest.asp?id=68558

[George S.]

bugi your lot was caught cheating in the census.Not only naming turks as albanians but falsifying the census.Also hoping to get the holiday season in july & have the census then so your albanian brothers can come from o/s & participate in the census.Trying anyway you can to falsify the census.What does it prove you are not 20% even you are less than 17%.
So that's why you won't participate in the macedonian census.I think you should be banned from ever participating in any census as you can't be trusted.Your rights should not be any more than a normal macedonian citizen.Why should you get special rights & priveleges .You are not even ethnic to the land.If you live abroad you should not be allowed to vote in the census.Do you ralise how many macedonians there are o/s 2.5 million in the diaspora.Imagine if they voted??