Macedonia: Patriots, Traitors, Enemies and the Ignorant

[Vangelovski]

I think vassals are essentially traitors. They pledge loyalty to foreign powers in return for personal gain. They are subjects, slaves to other people rather than free men.

[indigen]

A lesson in "communication techniques" from an "EXPERT" on the ground in MK!

protivpropaganda: "Македонскиот народ сега треба... 1. Да се одлучи каде на одмор. 2. Да си ја пикне главата подлабоко во песокот, така повеќе ќе се натрти за уште подлабоко да му го турат тие кои сфатија дека можат се` да му прават, а тој никако нема да реагира. 3. Да мавне едно скопско. И така се` е можно. 4. Ајварче да си намачка на лепче, џоа макробиотичка храна, де. Мани месо кога се има ајвар за јадење. Мислам, ајвЕр, де. 5. Да се зголеми данокот бидејки има многу кои ја тужат државата, а таа, нели, треба да плати за своите грешки. Таа мора да плати! Ние граѓаните не, државата е таа која мора да плати. 6. Секој Македонец да изврши харакири за да им олесни на грчиштата, бугариштата и србиштата. 7. Да си го измами, зае.би, намести, кодоши својот колега, другар, роднина или брат/ сестра. 8. Да се чатали со своето нелегално стекнато богатство пред своите сиромашни соседи, технолошки вишоци на македонската економија. Да ги третира како леви сметала незаслужни да го дишат неговиот воздух. 9. Да се занимава со сечии проблеми освен со своите. 10. Да плати некој за да ме убијат за ова напишаното..."

Try that out for "communication techniques" and diplomatic style! :-)

A view of the Macedonians in the republic by our newly recruited (By Bratot) "Communications Lecturer" - "Dr" PP (ПП). What do people think, is PP on the ball or just blowing some hot air in times of (his past) frustration/s?

[indigen]

Should we include another group called 'vassals'? This would be for those Macedonians and minority members who aren't traitors or enemies per se, but still blindly support traitors or enemies. For example, I consider Branko Crvenkovski a downright maggot of a traitor, however, I wouldn't lump all SDS voters in the same basket. With the latter, I would either place them in the 'ignorant' category, or, the more adamant SDS supporters as 'vassals'. Any thoughts?

IMO, VASSALS are the ruling elites as they have some power and those serving, aiding and abetting them for personal/economic benefits are mere vassal appendages and traitors of a much lesser scale and should be neutralised rather then treated as the enemy. The foremost enemy are the VASSAL RULING ELITES and they would not be more than 1-2% of the Macedonian population (<25k).

[julie]

protiv propaganda is using the diaspora as guinea pigs for a thesis . He said he is studying the diaspora and thats my take . As for what he thinks he is maybe he can answer for himself . Cervenkovski is a traitor and anyone that votes for him the same . Anyone contra to the macedonian cause or with ego for self gain is a traitor . I consider myself a patriot and have been ignorant through lack of education and blind faith in the past . The ignorant need to be well informed . A vassal is a traitor . Its simple really , our name symbols and identity is all part of who we are and that can never be comprised under any circumstances , we need to educate the ignorant as they may not have the undertanding of the consequences . And to be careful of labelling the ignorant who may be patriotic

[Serdarot]

Vlachs played an important part of Macedonia's not too distant history. They have given us Pitu Guli, at least half of Mother Theresa, and recently Toshe. This is only a small part of a long list. You never heard Macedonians say the things they say about Albanians, being nothing more than leaches and enemies to Macedonia, about the Vlachs. Alot of Vlachs are very pro-Macedonian. That is why I think they, or minorities, should be included.

sorry for offtopic:

i am not sure, if you are aware, that many Vlachs concider themself as Macedonians who developed their language in "latin" direction, but same blood and same people as we are... there are several theories about the Vlachs, and i prefer to let them decide in which one they believe, but most of those i know, are insulted when someone concider them for something diferent than we are

[Prolet]

Prolet, how would you rank Gruevski?

The best leader since Metodija Andonov Chento, just like Russia has their Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin we have our own Nikola Gruevski. Finally we have somebody who's got the balls to govern our country.

If there is somebody better out there i sure would like to know who it is.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Would Putin continue negotiating the name of his state just because the guy before him set the precedent?

[Makedonetz]

Wasn't Putin a former KGB and was jailed during the Boris Yeltsin regime?

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Prolet, how would you rank Gruevski?

The best leader since Metodija Andonov Chento, just like Russia has their Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin we have our own Nikola Gruevski. Finally we have somebody who's got the balls to govern our country.

If there is somebody better out there i sure would like to know who it is.

He is a RAMKOVIST and anybody who is not a RAMKOVIST would be better than Gruevski. That leaves open the possibility for even some despicable YU era politicians to rank higher than a RAMKOVIST in coalition with UCK and fully engaged in the TOTAL DECONSTRUCTION of the Macedonian state and nation.

FYI, Prolet, KLJUSEV should be regarded with higher esteem than any other post 1990 "Leader"! You can think about the whys and hows!

[Big Bad Sven]

You should add minorities in this list. It wasn't too long ago that a bunch of Vlachs in Macedonia were dancing with the grk flag. It seems lately the Vlachs in Macedonia are starting to come up with their own version of re-visionist history that they are the original inhabitants of the balkans and everyone else came with the "Slavs". I find that traitorous.

That’s a very good point True Macedonian.

We have vlach in Bitola dancing with the grk flag, and it wouldn’t surprise me that they make the majority of the “greeks” in rep of Macedonia.

If you read John Reeds Salonika Terminus book they interview a elderly vlach idiot from Krusevo who is some sort of leader there and he ignorantly claims that we are “confused Bulgarians” and that the vlach are the true descendants of the ancient Macedonians!

You can even search random forums on the net with this type of garbage as well.

And to make things even more confusing, I know of vlach people in struga who get some sort of free entry into Romanian universities if they claim that they are Romanian. I guess it is the same as how young Macedonians sell their souls and pretend to be Bulgarians in order to get a “good education” in third world Bulgaria. Usually these “Bulgarian” degrees get these people high and classy jobs in western countries such as cleaners and taxi drivers….

What is even more sad is that I also know of Macedonians in Struga (mainly from mislesevo area) that are only like one quarter vlach and say that they are full Romanian in order to get this deal for a Romanian education.

However I still like the majority of vlach people and have a lot of respect for them, and think that they are probably one of the more loyal minorities in Macedonia. Its just that unfortunately since Macedonia’s independence there has been a lot of foreign forces that have been brainwashing them…..

[Big Bad Sven]

In regards to the other minorities, would it be fair to say that the majority of the shiptars are all traitors and anti-Macedonian? I have never heard of an Albanian in Macedonia help his Macedonian neighbours or “friends” during the “civil war” of 2001 or after when many Macedonians became displaced. I would be bold and say that nearly all Albanians are enemies of Macedonia and have no respect to the state, its people, history or language from personal experience and reading books and on the internet.

I think the serb minority are the classic “snakes in the grass” who have been rather quite after their failed attempts in the early 90’s but seem to be increasing their activities with recent demonstrations. I have met some good serbs from Macedonia, so I guess they aren’t all bad like the shiptars, but I still think a great majority of them are enemies of Macedonia, especially were they have huge numbers like in places like Kumanovo and Skopje.

I think the turks and even the humble roma are our best and most loyal minorities. The turks are quite and actually participate in pro-macedonian activities. The roma, for all of their “social faults” and hatred they receive from Macedonians, they actually are pretty decent folk when it comes to Balkan politics. They are neither anti-macedonian or pro Macedonian and just do their own thing. Politically, I actually think the roma pose no threat to Macedonia which is great.

[Big Bad Sven]

I honestly think if you want to see where the real Macedonian patriots are in Macedonia, you only need to meet the Macedonians from tetovo and Gostivar, and possibly Kumanovo, who have faced shiptar bullshit and are not intimidated by gheg gangster tactics and refuse to leave their homes. I truly respect these brave Macedonians but at the same time feel sorry for them.
I despise the greedy people in Ohrid who sell shiptar memorabilia or sing shiptar/Serbian songs to these customers. Eastern Macedonia is a worry for me especially places like Veles and Stip were unemployment and crime is high, it’s becoming a breeding ground for bugaromans and SDSM supporters. Which is a shame as a lot of those people are genuinely good honest people but are unfortunately seduced too easy because of economic issues.

I feel sorry for people from poor areas that become pawns of the anti-macedonian groups as they are in a tough position, but have no mercy for bastards in Skopje, ohrid, strumica etc that are well off but are SDSM cheerleaders, Bulgarian passport holders and basically crying for a name change so that they can get into the EU and have a “better life”!
These people are nothing more then weak, spineless sell outs

[Ljubanec]

I can only say if I was a Vlach with a proud Macedonian conscience I would be offended.

I have been to a cafana in bitola some years back, that did play, of all things Greek music. You had men dancing together, balancing bottles on their heads, throwing napkins and breaking plates. Rather disgusting display I might add. I don't understand it nor do I condone it.

But keep in mind, when a person makes comments that Vlachs are traitors to some degree. It doesn't serve anyones interests.

[Daskalot]

sorry for offtopic:

i am not sure, if you are aware, that many Vlachs concider themself as Macedonians who developed their language in "latin" direction, but same blood and same people as we are... there are several theories about the Vlachs, and i prefer to let them decide in which one they believe, but most of those i know, are insulted when someone concider them for something diferent than we are

I have also heard this from many Vlachs in Macedonia.
And in regards to the original post I do think that the vast majority are ignorant and that the patriotis are equal to the traitors and enemies.

[The LION will ROAR]

Who ever calls themselves a patriot but is willing to negotiate our Name and kneel to our enemies are not patriots to me..

As some of you guy's quoted that Vlach, Turks and other small minorities who are pro-Macedonian..
Would it be any different or Act different if they were the largest minorities in Macedonia..?

And as for SOM Question Would Putin continue to negotiating the name of his state..?
No he wouldn't
Would it be any different if were the stronger side in economy and in military.. Would we still negotiate with the Greeks..?
I think not...