Australian Born Macedonians.

[axil]

Hi all,

I am new here. As the thread suggests, I am an Australian Born Macedonian. I am 25 years old.

Growing up in Australia, my parents did not really push me into learning a great deal of the language as I was growing up. Our surname is Greek although it is not suppose to be (We are currently trying to think of a new surname that is Macedonian, however this is hard as our surname is well known and goes back as far as 1906 I think when my Buba first came here as one of the first Macedonian women into Australia. So to change it would mean a great deal of confusion and explanation to others). I have been to a few dances with my parents just to see what they are about but unfortunately not many people my age go to them either, it mostly seems to be the older generation. I do love the cooking though and my Mum does a great job haha. I love the Zelnic and Vieolnic (excuse the spelling).

I don't really know any Macedonians of my age group and I rarely ever see my cousins and relo's (apparently I have a lot of them but really I see a handful of them a year at best). I consider myself Australian however I acknowledge my background as Macedonian. I am interested in visiting the country one day to see what it is all about.

I guess what I am trying to work out, is if people have some similar thoughts/experiences or able to answer some of my questions:

1.) Do you feel it is important relationship wise to have a Macedonian as a partner?

2.) Why do you feel people of my generation don't hold as much interest in the dances or other cultural activities anymore? Or if they do, what areas are these people from?

3.) If you changed your surname from it being Greek for so long, how did you come to change it? As in, what process did you use to come up with the new surname that you now have? How does it feel living by a different surname?

[Ljubanec]

Nice to meet you! I wouldn't worry about your surname at all. Macedonians are welcoming and kind people. Whether your name is Macedonian or Greek.
Here are my opinions to your questions
1) Yes, I do believe it is important to have a partner that is Macedonian. It doesn't guarantee happiness or even cultural continuation (you can follow your traditions as a family with any other ethnicity I believe). It does help though if your partner is Macedonian.

2) The older generation always complains about the younger one and not giving them enough credit or trust. wait 40 years from now and remeber how you felt at 25. Every older generation should mentor the younger one as equals. I find that this does not often happen in the Macedonian community.

3) I wouldn't change your surname

Hi all,

I am new here. As the thread suggests, I am an Australian Born Macedonian. I am 25 years old.

Growing up in Australia, my parents did not really push me into learning a great deal of the language as I was growing up. Our surname is Greek although it is not suppose to be (We are currently trying to think of a new surname that is Macedonian, however this is hard as our surname is well known and goes back as far as 1906 I think when my Buba first came here as one of the first Macedonian women into Australia. So to change it would mean a great deal of confusion and explanation to others). I have been to a few dances with my parents just to see what they are about but unfortunately not many people my age go to them either, it mostly seems to be the older generation. I do love the cooking though and my Mum does a great job haha. I love the Zelnic and Vieolnic (excuse the spelling).

I don't really know any Macedonians of my age group and I rarely ever see my cousins and relo's (apparently I have a lot of them but really I see a handful of them a year at best). I consider myself Australian however I acknowledge my background as Macedonian. I am interested in visiting the country one day to see what it is all about.

I guess what I am trying to work out, is if people have some similar thoughts/experiences or able to answer some of my questions:

1.) Do you feel it is important relationship wise to have a Macedonian as a partner?

2.) Why do you feel people of my generation don't hold as much interest in the dances or other cultural activities anymore?

3.) If you had to change your surname from it being Greek for so long, how did you come to change it? How did it feel living by a different surname?

[figure8]

definetly go to macedonia!!!

[Bij]

Hi all,

I am new here. As the thread suggests, I am an Australian Born Macedonian. I am 25 years old.

Growing up in Australia, my parents did not really push me into learning a great deal of the language as I was growing up. Our surname is Greek although it is not suppose to be (We are currently trying to think of a new surname that is Macedonian, however this is hard as our surname is well known and goes back as far as 1906 I think when my Buba first came here as one of the first Macedonian women into Australia. So to change it would mean a great deal of confusion and explanation to others). I have been to a few dances with my parents just to see what they are about but unfortunately not many people my age go to them either, it mostly seems to be the older generation. I do love the cooking though and my Mum does a great job haha. I love the Zelnic and Vieolnic (excuse the spelling).

I don't really know any Macedonians of my age group and I rarely ever see my cousins and relo's (apparently I have a lot of them but really I see a handful of them a year at best). I consider myself Australian however I acknowledge my background as Macedonian. I am interested in visiting the country one day to see what it is all about.

I guess what I am trying to work out, is if people have some similar thoughts/experiences or able to answer some of my questions:

1.) Do you feel it is important relationship wise to have a Macedonian as a partner?

2.) Why do you feel people of my generation don't hold as much interest in the dances or other cultural activities anymore? Or if they do, what areas are these people from?

3.) If you changed your surname from it being Greek for so long, how did you come to change it? As in, what process did you use to come up with the new surname that you now have? How does it feel living by a different surname?

Welcome to the forum.

1.) Do you feel it is important relationship wise to have a Macedonian as a partner?

Yes and no. I feel it's more important for one to have a self Macedonian identity and pride. It would be nice to have a Macedonian partner because you understand each other on a different level but i've see plenty of Macedonians marry non-macedonians who actively get involved in our culture and raise kids who are just as proud. Having said this, I'm dating an Aussie at the moment so my opinion may be biased.

On the flipside, if you're born and raised Macedonian but have no pride or desire to continue living your life that way, well then what's the use?

2.) Why do you feel people of my generation don't hold as much interest in the dances or other cultural activities anymore? Or if they do, what areas are these people from?

"dances" are old school. it's just like asking why kids would rather play video games than in a park or street. Macedonians now interact differently. Facebook, nightclubs, kafani, etc.

3.) If you changed your surname from it being Greek for so long, how did you come to change it? As in, what process did you use to come up with the new surname that you now have? How does it feel living by a different surname?

I've never changed my surname and don't plan on changing it. I don't think you should either. Your surname doesn't change who you are.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the insight into your situation.

Our surname is Greek although it is not suppose to be (We are currently trying to think of a new surname that is Macedonian, however this is hard as our surname is well known and goes back as far as 1906 I think when my Buba first came here as one of the first Macedonian women into Australia.

How did your grandmother come to have a Greek surname prior to Greece's occupation of Macedonia in 1913? The only possibility is records from patriarchist institutions (churches, schools, etc) but that doesn't explain why she wouldn't use her Macedonian surname when she arrived in Australia. Do you know the reason for that? And why would you try to think of a new Macedonian surname? If it's something like Bogdanis, Petrou, etc, it can easily be rendered in Macedonian. If it's a purely Greek name then your previous one was completely different. Most Macedonian families are aware of their older names, isn't yours?

So to change it would mean a great deal of confusion and explanation to others

I don't consider that a reasonable excuse, to be honest. If I carried a name that was imposed by foreigners, but was now in a position and adequate state of mind to make amends, I would rectify that matter immediately by changing it back to its original Macedonian form.

[Egejska]

Do not change your last name.

It is evidence to what the Greek state has done to the ethnic Macedonians living within its "democratic country".

What selo did your grandparents come from?

[George S.]

welcome aboard Axill.I would say the stupid greek govt forced your grandparents to change their name to greek so that they could hold down a job etc.
It's all up to you if you want to change your name to macedonian now that you are free.
Once again it's up to you to decide if you want a macedonian partner whatever makes you happy.There's plenty of macedonian women around.Yo can find some here or in macedonia.
Age is as old as you feel.Simply going to dances may not guarantee that you'll meet someone.You have to find where macedonians go to go out for partying.
If it makes you happy do change your name its your life.Similarly it's up to you if you are proud macedonian as i said there's heaps of macedonian women so never give up hope in finding one.Good luck in whatever you do.
Out of curiosity what new macedonian name would you call yourself???

[Bill77]

Welcome axil,

I am totally against any egejci using a foreign imposed name. To me that is playing part in keeping egej Hellenised. Could you imagine if all Macedonians in egejska Makedonia changed back to there original ancestral names and the statement that will make?

If anyone here in this forum thinks its acceptable to keep the foreign imposed Greek sounding surname, then tell me why should we not keep the foreign imposed name "fyrom" for our republic. What is the difference?

[Stojacanec]

Hi Axil

Welcome and thank you for your insight.

My grandfather came to Australia in late 40s. To get out of Macedonia (ROM) he had to change his last name to “….ich”. Other family members, great aunties and uncles live near Solun. Their last name is the same but changed to “….os”.

Realising these chain of events due to occupation and forced assimilation and the freedom and opportunities you have in Australia, I would definitely change my name back to set the records straight.

It could be very easily explained.

[RitaC]

Our family name was changed by the Greeks by replacing the v with a u. In Australia, the name was anglicized by dropping the suffix altogether.

As for the rest of your post, for all intents and purposes, I'm a third generation Macedonian and I do not speak the language at all well, having grown up in a household where both parents spoke English.

I question the viability of the Macedonian consciousness existing amongst the Australian diaspora beyond another generation. It's not just the dinner dances, but other Macedonian functions/gatherings that also starkly evidence this. Who here has been to Geelong, King Lake or Connor reserve recently and hasn't felt sadness at witnessing the terminal decline of these institutions???

It's not just our community though that this has happened to. I have a couple of Armenian mates and they also report the same occurring within their community.

[Bill77]

As for the rest of your post, for all intents and purposes, I'm a third generation Macedonian and I do not speak the language at all well, having grown up in a household where both parents spoke English.

My children are third generation Macedonians aswell. A couple of them can't speak Macedonian at all. while one of them can speak read and write in Macedonian. I can't figure out how this can be. My oldest struggles to speak Macedonian big time. At early age he spoke Macedonian only till he started school and really struggled with English, now its the other way around. But in saying this, they all love listening to Macedonian music, Dance Macedonian dances, love going to the soccer to watch Macedonian clubs getting Macedonian symbols tattooed etc. They classify themselves as Macedonians when ever asked. So i don't think language plays a major part.

I question the viability of the Macedonian consciousness existing amongst the Australian diaspora beyond another generation. It's not just the dinner dances, but other Macedonian functions/gatherings that also starkly evidence this. Who here has been to Geelong, King Lake or Connor reserve recently and hasn't felt sadness at witnessing the terminal decline of these institutions???

It's not just our community though that this has happened to. I have a couple of Armenian mates and they also report the same occurring within their community.

Good points. I think every other ethnic European groups will suffer the same consequence. Some quicker than others, but the destiny is inevitable for all. The only ones that are not in Danger are those in the diaspora that are from places like the middle east that are Muslim. They do not mix marriages, or integrate with western culture.

[Risto the Great]

Welcome Axil.
I am confident this thread will have "legs" and continue for some time.
There are a few issues you have raised and I look forward to everyone's input.

The first thing worth mentioning is that nobody is more or less Macedonian than you (if you feel Macedonian). You can easily awaken your connection to your identity and we can discuss this as you participate longer on this forum.

I changed my name just before I received my degree. I refused to have a professional life with my "slave name". I was very well known with my "slave name" so thought there would be far more consequences than what actually eventuated. It was no big deal and I think it is extremely symbolic to change your name back to your traditional family name.

Having an "ich" or "os" etc. on the end of your name makes you no less Macedonian, yet it does little to affirm your identity publicly in my opinion. I strongly encourage all Macedonians with "slave names" to seek their traditional names and restore their identity.

[BigMak]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the involvement of religion and the Macedonian orthodox church, without the basic understanding of the Macedonian Language how do 2nd and 3rd generation Macedonians practice religion? Be it veligden (easter) or bozic (Christmas), Modern Macedonian culture circulates around the Macedonian Orthodox Calendar etc... not to mention christenings and weddings. as both these to events have large significant ties to each and everyone's personal customs from region to village, In most circumstances a Macedonian can be identified via these customs and localized to that region or town

The key to this is the continuation of education via our church, cultural groups etc. Assimilation into the main stream is a easy process, not much thought needs to go into it, but to maintain a ethnic consciousness requires work and education.

We have no one else to blame apart from ourselves.

in regards to a surname re-change, I'm not sure how you can feel a tie to a name that was imposed on your family, the true connection should be with the name your four fathers carried and not one of assimilation.

[axil]

Nice to meet you! I wouldn't worry about your surname at all. Macedonians are welcoming and kind people. Whether your name is Macedonian or Greek.
Here are my opinions to your questions
1) Yes, I do believe it is important to have a partner that is Macedonian. It doesn't guarantee happiness or even cultural continuation (you can follow your traditions as a family with any other ethnicity I believe). It does help though if your partner is Macedonian.

2) The older generation always complains about the younger one and not giving them enough credit or trust. wait 40 years from now and remeber how you felt at 25. Every older generation should mentor the younger one as equals. I find that this does not often happen in the Macedonian community.

3) I wouldn't change your surname

Thanks Ljubanec,

In particular with point 2, you really struck a chord with me. I am the eldest of my brother and I, and growing up I felt I needed to behave extra well to gain one step forward in trust. However, on the occasions I did something wrong I would fall 10 steps back and even today, my parents as much as I love them, still remind me from time to time. So I wasn't allowed to stay at friends places or go on school camps (back in primary school) unlike my other friends. Especially when it came to going out they liked to say,

"It's not that we don't trust you, we don't trust others."

Then, out of nowhere when I turned 16 and had my own car, suddenly 99% of the restrictions went out the door and I was free to do what I pleased. It was very weird to suddenly go from having this strict life to a feeling of absolute freedom. I didn't get it. I still don't. I love them, they have done a great deal for me and I appreciate everything, however I just don't understand the sudden change in strictness.

[axil]

Welcome to the forum.

1.) Do you feel it is important relationship wise to have a Macedonian as a partner?

Yes and no. I feel it's more important for one to have a self Macedonian identity and pride. It would be nice to have a Macedonian partner because you understand each other on a different level but i've see plenty of Macedonians marry non-macedonians who actively get involved in our culture and raise kids who are just as proud. Having said this, I'm dating an Aussie at the moment so my opinion may be biased.

On the flipside, if you're born and raised Macedonian but have no pride or desire to continue living your life that way, well then what's the use?

2.) Why do you feel people of my generation don't hold as much interest in the dances or other cultural activities anymore? Or if they do, what areas are these people from?

"dances" are old school. it's just like asking why kids would rather play video games than in a park or street. Macedonians now interact differently. Facebook, nightclubs, kafani, etc.

3.) If you changed your surname from it being Greek for so long, how did you come to change it? As in, what process did you use to come up with the new surname that you now have? How does it feel living by a different surname?

I've never changed my surname and don't plan on changing it. I don't think you should either. Your surname doesn't change who you are.

Good points, I think the only reason I would find a Macedonian partner is to keep the identity as all Macedonian instead of being the catalyst for 'half/half' in nationalities in the family tree. I have some pride in that sense.

What is a Kafani?