Ventilator

[Risto the Great]

ideological sustenance

Nice to see these two words together. I wonder where Macedonia is finding its ideological sustenance nowadays.

[Risto the Great]

My $0.02 worth in red below.

1. Macedonian Diaspora will see as ENEMY NUMBER ONE the VASSALS in MK and their political appendages amongst its DIASPORA ranks and will politically and ideological fight to eliminate them.

2. It will link up with political forces inside MK with a similar agenda and support and aid those forces to fight for power and influence against the VASSALS and for the Macedonian Cause.

3. The Macedonian Diaspora should (and can) not afford to be an appendage of the VASSAL and RAMKOVIST political establishment in MK!

4. The Macedonian DIASPORA should aid and work with Macedonian activists and organisations in ALL parts of occupied Macedonia and beyond, to the extent they are aligned with the Macedonian Cause.

Anything less than this and the Diaspora has failed its people in Macedonia as well as themselves.

[indigen]

Nice to see these two words together. I wonder where Macedonia is finding its ideological sustenance nowadays.

That has ALWAYS been one of our biggest obstacles and cause for great division as people improvise and/or follow the lead of VASSAL ideological lines, e.g. the YugoSLAV line that cut off all our indigenous roots and left (and still leaves) us ideologically defenceless against our mortal enemies, especially the Ghegs. I guess places such as MTO and other individual projects today provide some ideological sustenance but, IMO, nothing can replace an organised national state utilising all its institutions in providing full ideological sustenance for the well-being and healthy national development of the Macedonian nation.

[Risto the Great]

nothing can replace an organised national state utilising all it institutions in providing full ideological sustenance for the well-being and healthy national development of the Macedonian nation.

Ahhh that is crazy talk. You sound like a crazy nationalist and we know what happens to them in Macedonia.

[julie]

they turn into serbophile sdms lunatics or sedate vmro shiptari lovers .

[Bratot]

That is right, we are in a rare position (maybe or maybe not the absolute exception?) but can you find another people with similar situation?



1. Macedonian Diaspora will see as ENEMY NUMBER ONE the VASSALS in MK and their political appendages amongst its DIASPORA ranks and will politically and ideological fight to eliminate them.

2. It will link up with political forces inside MK with a similar agenda and support and aid those forces to fight for power and influence against the VASSALS and for the Macedonian Cause.

3. The Macedonian Diaspora should (and can) not afford to be an appendage of the VASSAL and RAMKOVIST political establishment in MK!

4. The Macedonian DIASPORA should aid and work with Macedonian activists and organisations in ALL parts of occupied Macedonia and beyond, to the extent they are aligned with the Macedonian Cause.

The first 3 could be summed up in just one point.

And the question would be, to which extent the Diaspora managed to fulfill these points of yours, so far?

I also think you skipped the most of other activities that should be priority for one Diaspora, such as the lobbying.

[makedonin]

And the question would be, to which extent the Diaspora managed to fulfill these points of yours, so far?

I am also interested in that. I want to see the substance, the practice not just the talk.


Looking at all those Serb flags and those serboman dick heads, what are we to estimate about what the Diaspora have managed to fulfill?

ideological sustenance

I also wonder what will happen to the ideological sustenance if those who are to be fed with that ideology have empty bellies.

That is something which is gladly swept under the carpet, wouldn't you agree?

[indigen]

The first 3 could be summed up in just one point.

It certainly can be but it is worthwhile restating some points so that they sink in.

And the question would be, to which extent the Diaspora managed to fulfil these points of yours, so far?

Vassals are still in power and there is no signs of any effective challenge or chances for prospective positive change in the near future. Vassal appendages are active, e.g. UMD, Jole Karevski, amongst others, and the Vassal state instruments are weaving a web of support networks amongst the Diaspora communities. As it stands now, it looks like the DIASPORA is under an all-sided attack from the Vassal political forces and structures and politically independent Diaspora organisations are struggling to resist and survive let alone to have the ability to take the fight where it needs to be.

I also think you skipped the most of other activities that should be priority for one Diaspora, such as the lobbying.

Vassals running Mk can only have Vassal appendages such "UMD" to lobby for anti-Macedonian policies and outcomes. How can one lobby for the Macedonian Cause when the main political enemy is the Vassal rulers in Skopje? ONLY when Macedonia has a Macedonian national government committed to the Macedonian Cause can the Macedonian Diaspora fully engage in lobbying work without fear of being betrayed and demoralised yet again.

Some simple maths:
Vassal Rulers in Skopje (-1) + Vassal Lobby Group (-1) = -2 Outcome! :-)))

Vassal Rulers in Skopje (-1) + Macedonia Lobby Group (1) = 0 Outcome! :-)

Desired formula for national success:
Macedonian Government (1) + Macedonian Lobby (1) = 2 Positive Outcome!

[indigen]

Looking at all those Serb flags and those serboman dick heads, what are we to estimate about what the Diaspora have managed to fulfill?

There are Serb parties who wave Serb Flags and it does not mean that they are SDS members who are waving them. I thought you were the one complaining about generalisations and name calling. :-)

Since the Shiptars are waving their flags all over the place and taking more and more areas of Macedonia under their total political control and Macedonians are doing little about it, why is it such a big problem for you to see a few Srb flags at a rally where Srb parties are also taking part in? It really is of little consequence in comparison to the bigger picture, IMO!

[Risto the Great]

And the question would be, to which extent the Diaspora managed to fulfill these points of yours, so far?

The Macedonian Diaspora in Australia were one of the few free Macedonians once upon a time. Had the Macedonians in Australia not been so fiercely Macedonian for such a long time, there would probably not have been a Macedonia today. Take that as you will. If you don't know this, you should look into it a bit more.

Hey, while we are at it, another fact is that much of this drive came from Egejci in the first instance. I hope it does not offend your sensibilities.

Maybe the ethnic Albanian ruling class will look after the Macedonians better in a few years. Everything the Macedonians in Macedonia are doing (or not doing) suggests they can't wait for the change to occur.

[makedonin]

Vassals running Mk can only have Vassal appendages such "UMD" to lobby for anti-Macedonian policies and outcomes. How can one lobby for the Macedonian Cause when the main political enemy is the Vassal rulers in Skopje?

How do we change that? By calling them Vassals or by insulting the Macedonians from the Republic? If Ideology was the cure, it would have brought it's fruits already. Why isn't that so?

Why are the Macedonians ignorant about the Diaspora and it's beneficial impact and Ideology?

Why are we demanding everything just from the Macedonians from RoM? Why are we leaving out those from Egej, Pirin and Mala Prespa?

Do you think that they share the Ideology and don't they need the ideological sustenance too?

ONLY when Macedonia has a Macedonian national government committed to the Macedonian Cause can the Macedonian Diaspora fully engage in lobbying work without fear of being betrayed and demoralised yet again.

First of all, are you saying that VMRO is a Vassal too?

Second, how do you imagine we are to install that government you are speaking? That coming from somebody who admitted that he can't go back to the Republic cause he has close to no political connection in the Republic!
Do you really believe that any Party will comply to the Demands of MTO or any other Diaspora organization?

I don't think that any Party inside of R. of Macedonia is ready to give up their power and comply to some organizations outside of the Republic's borders.

If that was the case, they would have done it already!

At least not if they are not paid good!
Is Diaspora ready to pay the price?

So what are we to do? How do we accomplish that what we preach?

There are Serb parties who wave Serb Flags and it does not mean that they are SDS members who are waving them. I thought you were the one complaining about generalisations and name calling. :-)

How do you know that? Were you there? What are your sources?

And as for the name calling, I decided to try out your remedy! How does it taste?

Since the Shiptars are waving their flags all over the place and taking more and more areas of Macedonia under their total political control and Macedonians are doing little about it, why is it such a big problem for you to see a few Srb flags at a rally where Srb parties are also taking part in? It really is of little consequence in comparison to the bigger picture, IMO!

I would say the same for the Shptar flags as well! But never for the current flag of the Republic! That is unlike you!

What really strikes me is this: why are you so cool with the Serb flag suddenly? Your coolness is somehow misplaced, wouldn't you agree?

[Bratot]

The Macedonian Diaspora in Australia were one of the few free Macedonians once upon a time. Had the Macedonians in Australia not been so fiercely Macedonian for such a long time, there would probably not have been a Macedonia today. Take that as you will. If you don't know this, you should look into it a bit more.

Well ok, I will look into a bit more, however you could spare me some time and sum it up, which events particularly support your assertion.

I could also say that if the significant number of Macedonian Diaspora haven't got 'hellenized' you could provide much more, not only for the Republic but for your own position in Australia these days.

Hey, while we are at it, another fact is that much of this drive came from Egejci in the first instance. I hope it does not offend your sensibilities.

It does not offend me, what does not offend yourself, having on mind that most of those Macedonians who got assimilated in Australia, willingly, were coming mostly from Egejci.

At least, I'm not enough the local patriot to be biased about this issue.

Maybe the ethnic Albanian ruling class will look after the Macedonians better in a few years. Everything the Macedonians in Macedonia are doing (or not doing) suggests they can't wait for the change to occur.

So be it, as anyone can see your point 'between the lines', you are limiting the chances for achieving w/e unity among "you" and "them", why even bothering is the question that should be asked.

[Serdarot]

grckiīj patrik ke ni sroni
Zlatna Ohridska Stolica
i mene do smrt ke drzi
v zatocenie

Ke prati Vladici grci
v lice svetci v srce vīci
ke ve strizat ke ve davat
ke mīlzat do krv

Megju Naroda ke seat
Nesoglasie i Omraza
da se mrazat sin so tatka
i so brata brat


fīkn unbeliveable, the wise people from our Folk, knowing good the mentality of the Macedonians, and the mentality of the "greeks", predicted all this, some 200 years ago...

[Risto the Great]

Bratot, re-read the Albanianisation of Macedonia thread and tell me what progress Macedonia has made in the last 5 years. If Macedonians are not happy with it, show me how this unhappiness has been expressed.

They (we) are in a war for their (our) identity.

In 10 years time (in Illiridonia) Macedonians will say "where were you when we needed you". We will say "we were trying to help you ... just like in 2001 ... but you were not interested in our help ... just like in 2001"

[Bill77]

grckiīj patrik ke ni sroni
Zlatna Ohridska Stolica
i mene do smrt ke drzi
v zatocenie

Ke prati Vladici grci
v lice svetci v srce vīci
ke ve strizat ke ve davat
ke mīlzat do krv

Megju Naroda ke seat
Nesoglasie i Omraza
da se mrazat sin so tatka
i so brata brat


fīkn unbeliveable, the wise people from our Folk, knowing good the mentality of the Macedonians, and the mentality of the "greeks", predicted all this, some 200 years ago...

Next time remember this post before you start with your diaspora rubish poz