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Id like to give you a clear response to what you asked SOM, but pls note I am referring to the context of this thread. The way I interpreted it was if Kallergis seperated Sicilians from Italians than how can we ensure what way he was referring to Macedonians? In line with Droogs thinking I think the interpretation of Vlachs in this sense is more probable. Only because the impact from Vlachs were significantly higher that Macedonians. I think this we can all agree on. The intention is not to generalise how Macedonians were defined pre 1860, just on what Kallergis as an individual said.
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Ok, when either yourself or Droog are prepared to provide some answers to those 2 simple questions, let me know.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
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a)That's as fringe as Napoleon being Albanian/Greek/ChineseOriginally posted by Bratot View PostI cited the historian V. Stojchev, I haven't made up such claim.
The name of Marko Bochvarot is evidenced in other sources also, there are still living persons bearing that name in today Macedonia.
There are also other Komiti bearing that name and there are few Macedonian folksongs about it.
Try by searching Bocvarot, Bochvarot, Бочварот.
Also Google books:
However, the point of Kallergis stands for it.
b)He wasn't even born in Macedonia
c)The "Bochvarot" thing seems to be a Bulgarian myth of the early 20th century, since i)the person or his family never used it ii)it first occurs in Slavic language mistransliterations
d)If you want to research historical subjects use sources like OUP and MUP and not links from unknown works you found on google books.Comment
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Volche then we do not know what he means with either Albanians, Greeks and Turks in your line of thinking.Comment
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It was not uncommon at all to call Aromanians Macedonians, Macedonovlachs etc like for example in this 1818 work http://books.google.ro/books?id=VfhD...nische&f=false
The ethnonym Macedonian had of course many meanings as in the case of the King of Naples who styled his Albanian guard as the Royal MacedonianComment
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Each case is different, don't you think?Originally posted by KingMac View Post
The term Macedonian has been linked to many characteristics ranging from birthplace to origin etc. The terms Greek and Turk have been associated with Orthodoxy and Islam in the Balkans, while the term Albanian in Montenegro was associated with Catholicism.Comment
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Keywords: styled and as.
Not being, I have styled myself as a king does this now make me a king?Comment
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...and that means that his Albanian guard was called the Royal Macedonian Guard. Terms have different meanings in different eras. Not to mention that terms changed from geographic to ethnic or religious definitions and vice-versa like In scholarly writings of the 17th and 18th* cents. the Croats are described as Illyrians and the Albanians as Epirotes or MacedoniansOriginally posted by KingMac View PostComment
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Are you claimig Albanians to be Macedonians?Comment
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I'm simply explaining to you that terms have different meanings that vary in each era, so don't anachronize them. Do you understand that concept?Originally posted by KingMac View PostComment
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So in this particular case we shall regard Albanians, Turks and Greeks as such but Macedonians shall be regarded as Vlachs. Also you like to give us explanations on why Albanians called thier royal guard as Macedonian. Frankly it looks like you are going to great lenghts explaining away Macedonians.Comment
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In this case there are only two terms used(Albanians & Macedonians) and that's why we deal with them. I explained to you that the term Albanian was also used in previous eras for Catholicism in Montenegro(where the local Slavs called it Arbanaska vera), but this isn't a case connected in any way to that as we're speaking about the southernmost Albanians, who were almost exclusively Orthodox. The term Macedonian, on the other hand as I proved was used for many different definitions including Aromanians too. I gave you to examples to make it easier for you to understand that definitions of a term vary.Originally posted by KingMac View PostComment
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Droog I honestly think you make up crap as you go. Because on the pages 304 and 305 of the book posted in the first post of this thread many peoples are mentioned. In the discussion between Kalergi and Senior 10 are mentioned, let me post them; Frenchman, American, Italian, Sicilians, Germans, Greeks, Turks, Albanians, Macedonians and Foreigners. Please explaine what they all mean and why they were used.Comment
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and the title's thread is Greek General Demetrios Kallergis on who fought the Turks (1860). We could discuss all those terms but they're not the subject of this topic. As I already proved the term Macedonian had many definitions, so deal with it.Originally posted by KingMac View PostComment
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Originally posted by Droog View Post
Why don't you try to find a book where the Vlachs are simply called Macedonians? Preferably written by a Greek since Demetrios Kallergis was such.
The term Macedonovlachs is self explanatory and is different from Macedonian. Don't try to sell us half-arguments as truth!
Not an Albanian guard, but an Albanian regiment.Originally posted by Droog View Post
You know there was also an American ship used in the American Civil War called `USS Macedonian`.
According to you this must mean that the term Macedonian was used as a synonym for Americans? Or maybe it was a synonym for a ship?
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