Vlado Crnozemski (Macedonian revolutionary)

Bratot · 06-15-2010, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by Da Zhive IMRO View Post

how bout mara buneva, vlado chernozemski, or the miladinov's? or izgrai zora?

Originally posted by Prolet View Post

Mara Buneva? LOL

She killed a Serbian Nachalnik and all of the sudden she is a national hero? Vlado Crnozemski these people are not national heros.

Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Post

Im not too sure about Mara Buneva, but Vlado Crnozemski is a national hero in my opinion. He was one of the only shining lights in macedonia in the 1930's for hope and was very important not just to macedonian history but world history as well.

Plus there is famous old macedonian folk song about him which is very popular:

If we try to "mention" all those who died and worked for Macedonia, I doubt we could fit them all in a regular anthem.

Honestly, Mara Buneva did nothing for the cause nor her motives are clear, I would say it's an ordinary person used today as a propaganda tool by the Bulgarians.

We should tend honouring those persons characterized with pure cause devotion and symbolize the Macedonian strive for unification, freedom and a national prosperity.

Vlado Cernozemski was not Macedonian, this is not even his real name as he obtained couple of them working as a assassin for Vanco Mihajlov, he is directly responsible for killing couple of Macedonian revolutionaries such as Gjorche Petrov.

He was trained killer with cold blood, pure Bulgarian, born in Bulgaria and certainly his assassination of the Serbian King in Paris was celebrated in Macedonia and not only, but also in the other countries under his regime such as Bosnia, Croatia and this was not only aimed against the Serbian regime but also in cooperation with Nazi German and Faschist Italian connections through Crotian Ustashi movement and Mihajlovist VMRO in order to kill not only the Serbian King who was more as collateral damage in the priority of killing the french ministeur I think as to break the agreement of non-arming Hitler's Germany.

The French was the main target, as a common work of all nazi structures and later allies - Germany, Italy, Croatia and Bulgaria.

The common people the peasant never really knew nor care who this person was - Cernozemski, all they were thankful is killing of the Serbian Tyran of King, that's why from their long suffering under his regime have honored Cernozemski with a song, but from nowadays perspective without blaming them for anything, Cernozemski was enemy of Macedonians same as rest of the Vrhovist and Serb chetniks working against our national movement.

That's why I urge better consult more history arguments before ending in such unpleasant absurd of celebrating our own murderer.

Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post

Macedonia is much more than the "Krushevo Republic" .... it definitely needs changing!

Of course, that was result of the Socialist idealogy to celebrate the victory in 2 WW and componing an anthem in a politically subjective climate, excluding persons as Nikola Karev even though was a President of the Krushevo Republic and replaced with the Vlach - Pitu Guli, without mentioning many other historically significant persons such as Samoil, Kiril&Metodij, Kliment&Naum, Karposh etc. etc.

Big Bad Sven · 06-15-2010, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by Prolet View Post

BBS, But you cant put him on the same ranks as Goce Delcev,Pitu Guli,Dame Gruev,Jane Sandanski,Aleksandar Makedonski,Filip II,Chento etc

He's not worthy enough to be put in our national anthem thats for sure.

I never said that he should be put on the national anthem, but he is one of our national heroes i believe.

Prolet · 06-15-2010, 12:00 AM

BBS, But you cant put him on the same ranks as Goce Delcev,Pitu Guli,Dame Gruev,Jane Sandanski,Aleksandar Makedonski,Filip II,Chento etc

He's not worthy enough to be put in our national anthem thats for sure.

Big Bad Sven · 06-14-2010, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Prolet View Post

Mara Buneva? LOL

She killed a Serbian Nachalnik and all of the sudden she is a national hero? Vlado Crnozemski these people are not national heros.

Im not too sure about Mara Buneva, but Vlado Crnozemski is a national hero in my opinion. He was one of the only shining lights in macedonia in the 1930's for hope and was very important not just to macedonian history but world history as well.

Plus there is famous old macedonian folk song about him which is very popular:

YouTube - Slushaj bre kralu : Music of Macedonia

Bratot · 03-29-2010, 12:06 PM

Beside the one controversial term the rest is worth reading:

The History of Terrorism

http://books.google.com/books?id=YmpfgNqmVXYC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=History+of+terrorism+Macedonia&source=bl&ots=oLN0tzaUet&sig=rw9AzFGgA794dbXffxlvZKSnn60&hl=pl&ei=SM6wS_bEA8iQ-Ab414i3DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Bratot · 03-29-2010, 11:44 AM

I was trying to find this book but I got many same titled books, anyway there is mentioning of Macedonia:

Terrorism, U.S. Strategy, and Reagan Policies

http://books.google.com/books?id=j_YI1kVOrpwC&pg=PA6&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=I9iwS9SjJ4OGyATgwYyiCA&hl=pl&cd=98#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

An up-to-date and comprehensive outline of the United States' response to terrorism, this study deals with all aspects of U.S. antiterrorist policy from the military's role in combatting terrorism to the role of international law and organizations in dealing with terrorists. The evolution of U.S. policy and the anti-terrorism bureaucracy and command structure are carefully traced from the establishment by President Nixon of the Cabinet Committee to combat terrorism to President Reagan's signing of National Security Decision Directive 138 sanctioning the use of more aggressive counterterrorist actions, such as the U.S. raid on Libya.

Political Terrorism

http://books.google.com/books?id=QwMdC3hoezEC&pg=PA22&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=XdawS6vaEYqIzASF3bmyBA&hl=pl&cd=25#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

This work outlines the important considerations of policy that confront a democratic state in trying to combat terrorism and at the same time remain democratic. Part I of this book, provides the reader with a comprehensive introduction to the definition, history, theory, operation and effects of terrorism as an essential background to policy analysis. Part II analyses counter-terrorist policies. It begins by outlining basic policy choices and then looks at specific policy areas such as the role of intelligence agencies, the use of the armed forces, the development of anti-terrorist legislation and international treaties, and the issue of regulation of media reporting of terrorist incidents. Developments in the strategic dimension of terrorism are discussed in chapters on the importance of hostage takings to international terrorism and issues surrounding state involvement in international terrorism. In the preparation of this second edition, Grant Wardlaw has considerably expanded the second part of the book, focusing firmly upon the international policy consequences of prevalent developments within international terrorism.

Colonialism

http://books.google.com/books?id=qFTHBoRvQbsC&pg=PA578&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=-tawS46YCKO0zQS37LXTBw&hl=pl&cd=49#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

The most exhaustive reference work available on this critical subject in world history, focusing on the politics, economy, culture, and society of both colonizers and colonized."The history of the last 500 years is the history of imperialism," writes editor Melvin Page. In the Americas, as a result of imperialist conquest, disease, famine, and war nearly wiped out a population estimated in the tens of millions. Africa was devastated by the slave trade, an integral part of imperialism from the 1400s to the 1800s. In Asia, even though native populations survived, native political institutions were destroyed. Imperialism also forged the two most important ideologies of the last five centuries--racialism and modern nationalism.In more than 600 essays presented in this three-volume encyclopedia, Page and other leading scholars--historians, political scientists, economists, and sociologists--analyze the origins of imperialism, the many forms it took, and its impact worldwide. They also explore imperialism's bitter legacy: the gross inequities of global wealth and power that divide the former conquerors--primarily Europe, the United States, and Japan--from the people they conquered.600 entries covering ideologies, religions, theory, geography, imperial nations, colonies, colonized regions, ethnic groups, individuals, and treatiesContributions from an international team of academic experts in history, political science, economics, sociology, and other social sciencesA collection of documents representing each imperial power as well as primary sources relating to multiple empires and areas of the world to provide a deeper understanding of the processes of colonialism, which encompassed virtually the entire globeExtensive chronologies of various imperial empires (Austro-Hungarian, Belgian, British, Danish, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Ottoman, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Russian, and United States) provide context for the diverse entries

A History of Terrorism

http://books.google.com/books?id=yDL1B_Efoj8C&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=History+of+terrorism+Macedonia&source=bl&ots=_RdCN2CcCk&sig=PFSlimdbB5MGNg72vS5vqvNXyeg&hl=pl&ei=SM6wS_bEA8iQ-Ab414i3DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Macedonia&f=false

Assassinations, bombings, hijackings, diplomatic kidnappings-terrorism is the most publicized form of political violence. The history of terrorism goes back a very long time, but the very fact that there is such a history has frequently been ignored, even suppressed. This may be because terrorism has not appeared with equal intensity at all times. When terrorism reappeared in the late twentieth century after a period of relative calm, there was the tendency to regard it as a new phenomenon, without precedent. The psychological study of terrorism has never been much in fashion. But this neglect has left a number of crucial questions unanswered. Among these are why some people who share the same convictions turn to terrorism and others do not. What is terrorism's true impact on international politics? What influence might it exert in the future? A History of Terrorism completes Walter Laqueur's pioneering and authoritative study of guerrilla warfare and terrorist activity. He charts the history of political terror from nineteenth-century Europe, through the anarchists of the 1880s and 1890s, the left- and right-wing clashes during the twentieth century, and the multinational operations of Arab and other groups today. Laqueur examines the sociology of terrorism: funding, intelligence gathering, weapons and tactics, informers and countermeasures, and the crucial role of the media. He probes the "terrorist personality" and how terrorists have been depicted in literature and films. The doctrine of systematic terrorism and current interpretations of terrorism, its common patterns, motives, and aims, are unflinchingly faced and clearly explicated. Finally, Laqueur considers the effectiveness of terrorism and examines the ominous possibility of nuclear blackmail. Challenging accepted assumptions, forecasting the changes in terrorist activity that will affect tomorrow's headlines, Walter Laqueur demystifies terrorism without belittling its importance. Together with its companion volume, Guerrilla Warfare, also available from Transaction, A History of Terrorism is an essential tool for assessing and understanding this all-too-often sensationalized modern expression of extreme political action.

Terrorism

http://books.google.com/books?id=vKyzhXA71jEC&pg=PA155&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=UtWwS4jmCJ_czQS86bSMBw&hl=pl&cd=5#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

Terrorism is one of the forces defining our age, but it has also been around since some of the earliest civilizations. This one-of-a-kind study of the history of terrorism — from ancient Assyria to the post-9/11 War on Terror — puts terrorism into broad historical, political, religious and social context. The book leads the reader through the shifting understandings and definitions of terrorism through the ages, and its continuous development of themes allows for a fuller understanding of the uses of and responses to terrorism. The study of terrorism is constantly growing and ever changing. In Terrorism: A History, Randall Law gives students and general readers access to this rich field through the most up-to-date research combined with a much-needed long-range historical perspective. He extensively covers jihadism, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, Northern Ireland and the Ku Klux Klan plus lesser known movements in Uruguay, Algeria and even the pre-modern uses of terror in ancient Rome, medieval Europe and the French Revolution, among other topics.

The New Terrorism

http://books.google.com/books?id=D9cBrS2JiP0C&pg=PA19&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=UtWwS4jmCJ_czQS86bSMBw&hl=pl&cd=10#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

Recent attacks in Oklahoma City, at the World Trade Towers, and at American embassies in Africa demonstrate the horrifying consequences of a terrorist strike. But as technological advances make weapons of mass destruction frighteningly easy to acquire, a revolution is occurring in the very nature of terrorism--one that may make these attacks look like child's play. In The New Terrorism Walter Laqueur, one of the foremost experts on terrorism and international strategic affairs, recounts the history of terrorism and, more importantly, examines the future of terrorist activity worldwide. Laqueur traces the chilling trend away from terrorism perpetrated by groups of oppressed nationalists and radicals seeking political change to small clusters of fanatics bent on vengeance and simple destruction. Coinciding with this trend is the alarming availability of weapons of mass destruction. Chemical and biological weapons are cheap and relatively easy to make or buy. Even nuclear devices are increasingly feasible options for terrorists. And with the information age, cyber terrorism is just around the corner. Laqueur argues that as a new quasi-religious extreme right rises, with more personal and less ideological motivations than their left-wing counterparts, it is only a matter of time before the attainability of weapons of mass destruction creates a terrifying and unstable scenario. From militant separatism in Kashmir to state-sponsored extremism in Libya and ecoterrorism in the West, The New Terrorism offers a thorough account of terrorism in all its past and current manifestations. Most importantly, it casts a sober eye to the future, when the inevitable marriage of technology and fanaticism will give us all something new to think about.

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http://books.google.com/books?id=iVDDl6xfgfMC&pg=PA114&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=ztWwS-iyGJa8zgSQ3ZjPBg&hl=pl&cd=18#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

Inside Terrorism

http://books.google.com/books?id=O6QTfAkk22AC&pg=PA11&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=ztWwS-iyGJa8zgSQ3ZjPBg&hl=pl&cd=13#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

Bruce Hoffman's Inside Terrorism has remained a seminal work for understanding the historical evolution of terrorism and the terrorist mindset. In this revised edition of the classic text, Hoffman analyzes the new adversaries, motivations, and tactics of global terrorism that have emerged in recent years, focusing specifically on how al Qaeda has changed since 9/11; the reasons behind its resiliency, resonance, and longevity; and its successful use of the Internet and videotapes to build public support and gain new recruits. Hoffman broadens the discussion by evaluating the potential repercussions of the Iraqi insurgency, the use of suicide bombers, terrorist exploitation of new communications media, and the likelihood of a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear terrorist strike. Closer to home, Hoffman reconsiders the Timothy McVeigh case and the threats posed by American Christian white supremacists and abortion opponents as well as those posed by militant environmentalists and animal rights activists. He argues that the attacks on the World Trade Center fundamentally transformed the West's view of the terrorist threat. More relevant and necessary than ever, Inside Terrorism continues to be the definitive work on the history and future of global terrorism.

A History of Terrorism

http://books.google.com/books?id=yDL1B_Efoj8C&pg=PA76&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=XdawS6vaEYqIzASF3bmyBA&hl=pl&cd=23#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

Assassinations, bombings, hijackings, diplomatic kidnappings-terrorism is the most publicized form of political violence. The history of terrorism goes back a very long time, but the very fact that there is such a history has frequently been ignored, even suppressed. This may be because terrorism has not appeared with equal intensity at all times. When terrorism reappeared in the late twentieth century after a period of relative calm, there was the tendency to regard it as a new phenomenon, without precedent. The psychological study of terrorism has never been much in fashion. But this neglect has left a number of crucial questions unanswered. Among these are why some people who share the same convictions turn to terrorism and others do not. What is terrorism's true impact on international politics? What influence might it exert in the future? A History of Terrorism completes Walter Laqueur's pioneering and authoritative study of guerrilla warfare and terrorist activity. He charts the history of political terror from nineteenth-century Europe, through the anarchists of the 1880s and 1890s, the left- and right-wing clashes during the twentieth century, and the multinational operations of Arab and other groups today. Laqueur examines the sociology of terrorism: funding, intelligence gathering, weapons and tactics, informers and countermeasures, and the crucial role of the media. He probes the "terrorist personality" and how terrorists have been depicted in literature and films. The doctrine of systematic terrorism and current interpretations of terrorism, its common patterns, motives, and aims, are unflinchingly faced and clearly explicated. Finally, Laqueur considers the effectiveness of terrorism and examines the ominous possibility of nuclear blackmail. Challenging accepted assumptions, forecasting the changes in terrorist activity that will affect tomorrow's headlines, Walter Laqueur demystifies terrorism without belittling its importance. Together with its companion volume, Guerrilla Warfare, also available from Transaction, A History of Terrorism is an essential tool for assessing and understanding this all-too-often sensationalized modern expression of extreme political action.

Eastern Europe in the Twentieth Century

http://books.google.com/books?id=7Ro-AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA122&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=i9ewS4vEDaGEzQTTxNGcDQ&hl=pl&cd=75#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

Terrorism Versus Democracy

http://books.google.com/books?id=d4hrXMzAgJYC&pg=PA219&dq=terrorism+Macedonian&lr=&ei=i9ewS4vEDaGEzQTTxNGcDQ&hl=pl&cd=76#v=onepage&q=terrorism%20Macedonian&f=false

"Terrorism remains a major problem for many democratic countries and the wider international community. Recent history shows that it would be wrong to underestimate terrorism's potential strategic impact." "Terrorism Versus Democracy examines the problem of liberal democratic response. Is it possible to draw some key lessons from the recent experience of democracies in responding to terrorism? Are democracies fatally disadvantaged in the face of prolonged and ruthless terrorist campaigns? Does the only way to reduce significantly or to end terrorism necessarily involve major curtailments of democracy, human rights, and the rule of law? What are the key ingredients of an effective liberal democratic strategy to deal with terrorism? Is it feasible to develop a response which avoids the dangers of over-reaction and under-reaction undermining the very democracy one is trying to defend, while at the same time effectively protecting the right to life, the most basic of all human rights? All these question and many others are examined in Terrorism Versus Democracy." "This book is aimed not only at academia but also at a wider readership including policy-markers, legislators, and the law-enforcement and security professions as well as members of the general public in all democratic countries."--BOOK JACKET.Title Summary field provided by Blackwell North America, Inc. All Rights Reserved

I suggest you chcek all of this books and look for more.

Bratot · 03-29-2010, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Blagojce View Post

What do we hold the record for ?

Number of political assassinations in a limited period.

Daskalot · 03-29-2010, 08:56 AM

Acts of terrorism I would assume.

Blagojce · 03-29-2010, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Bratot View Post

Well.. not every documentary is accurate.

I recomend a book called "History of terrorism" or something like that, as a must read, I'm aware that being a "terrorist" today is not something to be proud of, but somehow while reading this book I was proud that Macedonians were the first who started modern terrorist methods and hold one of the records.

If I come down home I will scan some pages

What do we hold the record for ?

Bratot · 03-29-2010, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Blagojce View Post

4. Vlado Chernozemski the person who killed the King was depicted as a Croat and never mentioned as being a Macedonian.

The person under this pseudonim was not a Macedonian at all, but Bulgarian, illiterate, assassin working only for money who killed many Macedonian patriots in IMRO.

Bratot · 03-29-2010, 08:35 AM

Well.. not every documentary is accurate.

I recomend a book called "History of terrorism" or something like that, as a must read, I'm aware that being a "terrorist" today is not something to be proud of, but somehow while reading this book I was proud that Macedonians were the first who started modern terrorist methods and hold one of the records.

If I come down home I will scan some pages

Vlado Crnozemski (Macedonian revolutionary)

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Vlado Crnozemski (Macedonian revolutionary)