First printed Macedonian alphabet by Gjorgji Pulevski

[Soldier of Macedon]

If someone asked when Macedonian became an alphabet. Would 1945 be the correct answer when the alphabet was codified or 9th century AD when the Cyrillic alphabet was created by the Macedonian Saints Naum and Clement as a simplified form of Glagolitic?

Broadly speaking, it is the 9th century, because the modern Macedonian language descends from the spoken language in medieval Macedonia that served as the basis for the creation of both the Glagolitic and Cyrillic alphabets. All those that followed, including Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, etc. are merely simplified versions of the latter and were standardised at different times. The codification of the modern Macedonian alphabet in 1945 coincides with the first time in modern history that Macedonian statehood was officially acknowledged (albeit within the confines of a federal Yugoslavia). However, prior to that development, Macedonian dialects were, continuously if not always regularly, written in one form of Cyrillic or another for over 1,000 years. Peel back the layers of history and the roads of all modern Cyrillic alphabets lead back to the scholars from 9th century Macedonia.

On a side note, Bulgaria, which, in 1878, gained de facto independence from the Ottoman Empire following the Russian intervention they conveniently attempt to downplay nowadays (despite their largest cathedral in Sofia being named after a Russian ruler from the 13th century as a homage to the people who actually created Bulgaria), was still making adjustments to its alphabet in 1945. Moreover, aside from an abundance of Russian loanwords, they also use the letter я, which is a Russian mutation of the old Cyrillic letters ꙗ and ѧ. That does not justify some perceived imperfections in the modern Macedonian alphabet, but it does highlight the hypocritical absurdity of certain Bulgars who harp on about the incomparable yet supposedly "heavy" Serbian influence during the development of the modern literary language and orthography of Macedonia.

[VMRO]

Broadly speaking, it is the 9th century, because the modern Macedonian language descends from the spoken language in medieval Macedonia that served as the basis for the creation of both the Glagolitic and Cyrillic alphabets. All those that followed, including Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, etc. are merely simplified versions of the latter and were standardised at different times. The codification of the modern Macedonian alphabet in 1945 coincides with the first time in modern history that Macedonian statehood was officially acknowledged (albeit within the confines of a federal Yugoslavia). However, prior to that development, Macedonian dialects were, continuously if not always regularly, written in one form of Cyrillic or another for over 1,000 years. Peel back the layers of history and the roads of all modern Cyrillic alphabets lead back to the scholars from 9th century Macedonia.

On a side note, Bulgaria, which, in 1878, gained de facto independence from the Ottoman Empire following the Russian intervention they conveniently attempt to downplay nowadays (despite their largest cathedral in Sofia being named after a Russian ruler from the 13th century as a homage to the people who actually created Bulgaria), was still making adjustments to its alphabet in 1945. Moreover, aside from an abundance of Russian loanwords, they also use the letter я, which is a Russian mutation of the old Cyrillic letters ꙗ and ѧ. That does not justify some perceived imperfections in the modern Macedonian alphabet, but it does highlight the hypocritical absurdity of certain Bulgars who harp on about the incomparable yet supposedly "heavy" Serbian influence during the development of the modern literary language and orthography of Macedonia.

Totally agree with all of the above SoM.

[Maki]

This would be my ideal alphabet:
Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Дд, Ее, Жж, Зз, Ѕѕ, Ии, Іі, Кк, Лл, Мм, Нн, Оо, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Фф, Хх, Цц, Чч, Џџ, Шш, Щщ, Ъъ, Ьь

I think this version suits the Macedonian language the best as it's made entirely from letters found in Macedonian writers before Yugoslavia and Serbianization, (Yes even Џ is found in some Macedonian works such as those of Pejcinovic), yet also excludes letters that are unnessesary and that would make the language needlessly complicated.

[Maki]

Also something else related to this topic....

There is NO such thing as "latinica" in the Macedonian language!

If you want to spell ЦАР using the English alphabet, then you spell it like this: "TSAR".

Tsar = King
Car = 4 wheeled vehicle that you drive in.

Yes I'm suggesting Скопје should be spelled as Skopye in English.

I disagree. While I understand where you're coming from, I do believe that there should be some sort of standardization to consistently transliterate place names and communicate effectively in situations were cyrillic is not available or easily accessible. Lets face it, are Macedonian boomers really going to download a Macedonian cyrillic keyboard? and would they even know how to do it? obviously not.

Here is my proposal for a reworked Macedonian cyrillic alphabet as posted above:

Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Дд, Ее, Жж, Зз, Ѕѕ, Ии, Іі, Кк, Лл, Мм, Нн, Оо, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Фф, Хх, Цц, Чч, Џџ, Шш, Щщ, Ъъ, Ьь

And here is how I would transliterate it:

Aa, Bb, Vv, Gg, Dd, Ee, Žž, Zz, Dzdz, Ii, Jj, Kk, Ll, Mm, Nn, Oo, Pp, Rr, Ss, Tt, Uu, Ff, Hh, Cc, Čč, Dždž, Šš, Štšt, ', j

Here are some examples:

Училиште --> Училище/Učilište
Скопје --> Скопье/Skopje
Љубов --> Льубов/Ljubov
Држава --> Държава/D'ržava
С'ботско --> Съботско/S'botsko
Ќерка --> Кьерка/Kjerka
Ѓорче Петров --> Гьорче Петров/Gjorče Petrov
Мајка --> Маіка/Majka

I am fine with transliterating Іі as Jj or Yy but I believe Jj looks more natural for a slavic language however Yy would cause less confusion between Іі and Ьь. It shouldn't be too hard though, Іі always comes after vowels and Ьь after consonants.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

This would be my ideal alphabet:
Аа, Бб, Вв, Гг, Дд, Ее, Жж, Зз, Ѕѕ, Ии, Іі, Кк, Лл, Мм, Нн, Оо, Пп, Рр, Сс, Тт, Уу, Фф, Хх, Цц, Чч, Џџ, Шш, Щщ, Ъъ, Ьь

I think this version suits the Macedonian language the best as it's made entirely from letters found in Macedonian writers before Yugoslavia and Serbianization, (Yes even Џ is found in some Macedonian works such as those of Pejcinovic), yet also excludes letters that are unnessesary and that would make the language needlessly complicated.

Can you please explain to me how the letters љ and њ are unnecessary and "Serbianised"? What makes the use of ь more legitimate in your opinion?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Can you please explain to me how the letters љ and њ are unnecessary and "Serbianised"? What makes the use of ь more legitimate in your opinion?

It is more legitimate in terms of being more faithful to the original Cyrillic alphabet. Vuk Karadzic conjured the letters љ and њ by combining ь with л and н respectively. Whilst one could point to these ‘new’ letters (even though they are essentially amalgamations of existing Cyrillic letters) as being indicative of Serbian influence in the modern Macedonian alphabet, it can also be said that most of the Serbian alphabet is derived from an alphabet that was created by the disciples of Macedonian scholars from the medieval period. Besides, if we are going to highlight how one group of people has borrowed from another, we should mention the former Tengri-worshippers to the east of Macedonia, who, in addition to deriving their alphabet from the same disciples mentioned above, also adopted the letter я that was conjured in Russia and popularised during the reign of Peter I, thus indicative of Russian influence in the modern Bulgarian alphabet.

Although an argument can be made in support of a simplified phonetic alphabet for the west-central dialects of Macedonian on which the literary standard is based, I am of the opinion that Koneski (and Misirkov before him) should not have neglected some of the older letters from our traditional alphabet. Letters like ъ may have been almost obsolete in the abovementioned dialects but there was no aesthetic harm in retaining them and they would have been only marginally tedious for those learning to read and write. Correct or otherwise, an inadvertent consequence of the unfortunate exclusion of such letters was the perceived disregard for Macedonian literature written in other dialects, both post and prior. Moreover, setting the Misirkov precedent aside, the introduction of the abovementioned ‘new’ letters by Koneski would have been unnecessary had older letters like ь been retained. It was also bound to be divisive – and this should have been foreseen.

That is not to excuse the actions of certain people that were part of the so-called language committee at the end of WWII but were too fickle to stay the course and continue arguing on behalf of orthographic reforms from within, but the departure from our traditional alphabet partially disconnected us (however superficially) from our past and gave some morons who slither among “scholarly” circles in Bulgaria an easy excuse to falsely claim that which is not theirs. The tenacious stupidity and misguided appropriation by the latter are other factors that should have been foreseen given all that had happened up until that point.