Actually this papyrus text is THE answer to that thread about evolution and the beginning of the world.
The Ancient Macedonian Language
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Originally posted by spitfire View PostAnd that means what?
Instead of where it was found..
"Oh hey, a script written in Greek outside of Makedonian land, I knew they were Greek!"
Can you not see the degeneracy in assumptions like that, Spitfire?
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the old finders keepers rule still applies?"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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Originally posted by Nikolaj View PostIt means focus more on interpreting what is written on it to add a better insight to a specific part of history it applies to.
Instead of where it was found..
"Oh hey, a script written in Greek outside of Makedonian land, I knew they were Greek!"
Can you not see the degeneracy in assumptions like that, Spitfire?
This is probably a copy of an orpheic text. It's interesting in a poetic way, because it gives another view of mythology.
Apart from that, It is my thesis that language alone is not sufficient evidence. I write in english in this forum, this does not make me english. It could provide interesting debates, but it is a matter that cannot stand on its own in terms of proof.
But let's not go over that again. I think we have discussed this in the past.
On the manuscript, I can make out that it is greek. I can read a few words even in the tiny picture provided.
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Keeping in line with the topic theme, I thought this would be worth mentioning.
A friend of mine frequents a Facebook group that is dedicated to ancient Macedonian history and language. Although sloppy in their research and professionalism they posted a photo that nonetheless caught my attention.
The image is of a painting on some ancient Greek pottery. The writing on it is what is particularly interesting. The Greek says (read right to left):
ΜΒΔΒΜΟΣΔ ΑΣΕΑΜ ΜΥΒΜΥΔΟ
While it seemingly makes no sense, the website claims it actually should be read as: ΜPΔPΜΟΣΔ ΑΣΕΑΜ ΜΥPΜΥΔΟ
The phrase, according to them, actually represents ancient Macedonian. Depicting a suicide, they claim it says:
МРТВОСТА ЈА ЗЕМА МИРМИДО (Myrmidon takes death).
I have a couple of issues with this theory. First of all, is there any backing to the b>r shift used in the pottery? The authors presented it with no backing or sources.
Secondly, the depiction is of the ancient warrior Ajax. Myrmidon, while also Homeric, was used to denote the Myrmidons, named after King Myrmidon of Thessalian Phthia. Can we connect Ajax to the Myrmidons?
Lastly, even if this is not ancient Macedonian/Pelasgian, what language is it? It seems to be illegible when read from left to right, and it doesn't seem to be Greek. Any thoughts?
Here is the photo in question:
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Originally posted by Chakalarov View PostThe writing on it is what is particularly interesting. The Greek says (read right to left):
ΜΒΔΒΜΟΣΔ ΑΣΕΑΜ ΜΥΒΜΥΔΟ
While it seemingly makes no sense, the website claims it actually should be read as: ΜPΔPΜΟΣΔ ΑΣΕΑΜ ΜΥPΜΥΔΟ
The phrase, according to them, actually represents ancient Macedonian. Depicting a suicide, they claim it says:
МРТВОСТА ЈА ЗЕМА МИРМИДО (Myrmidon takes death).
I have a couple of issues with this theory. First of all, is there any backing to the b>r shift used in the pottery? The authors presented it with no backing or sources.
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This is the real one
Shape Description: Column krater
Inscriptions: On side A, each figure is named in Corinthian letters: from left, Toxos's name (poorly preserved), *K*L*U*T*I*O*S (Klytios), *D*I*D*I*Av*O*S (Didaios), *E*U*R*U*T*I*O*S (Eurytos), V*I*F*I*T*O*S (Iphitos), V*I*O*L*A (Iole), and [epig-rough]*E*R*A*K*L*E*S (Herakles). Under the left handle the names of Ajax, Odysseus, and Diomedes are badly preserved.
Sources Used: Simon & Hirmer 1976, p. 52, no. XI (with previous bibliography)
Last edited by Amphipolis; 11-18-2014, 05:10 PM.
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Originally posted by Chakalarov View Post"Under the left handle the names of Ajax, Odysseus, and Diomedes are badly preserved."
I still don't see how/why the names are transcribed like that on the recreation image I have posted. Are you saying the image has a wrong transcription of the letters?
Standard: ΔΙΟΜΗΔΗΣ
Σ is turned 90o and looks a little like M
H looks a little like B
Ι looks a little like Σ
Thus ΔΣΟΜΒΔΒΜ
The upper right name is Odysseus (read from left to right and since it's almost vertical from top to bottom).
Standard: ΟΔΥΣΣΕΥΣ
Σ is again turned 90o and looks a little like M
E looks a little like B
If this depiction is correct it is spelled with one Σ only
Thus ΟΔΥΜΒΥΜ
The lower right name is Ajax (read from right to left, that's why non symmetrical letters are inversed).
Standard: ΑΙΑΣ
With the addition of digamma (F the lost Greek letter) it becomes ΑΙFΑΣ
Σ is again turned 90o and looks a little like M
Ι looks a little like Σ
Thus ΑΙΑΣ - ΑΙFΑΣ - ΑΣFAM
With the inversion it becomes ΜΑFΣΑ (with F and Σ look inversed)
Last edited by Amphipolis; 11-19-2014, 12:55 AM.
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More supposed XMK inscriptions
The Facebook page that had that post supposedly about Myrmidon has this to say:
According to them, the text is "ΟΝΩΔΕΙΝ Ο ΜΕΝΕΟΣ ΣΥΡΑΚΟΣΙΟΙ ΤΥΡΑΝΑ ΠΟΚΥΛΑΣ." They claim that it should be read as "оно(вф)деин о менеос си(ј)ракосоиои ти(ј)рана поки(ј)лас." The translation that they provide is "Until the day on which the tyranny of Syracuse has an end."
Reading it a certain way (the way they claim it should be read), one can recognize Macedonian words. However, since they do not provide any sources for this it is really difficult to know if it's true. What I find to be even more strange is that a helmet from Italy of all the places would have Macedonian texts on it.
I did come across the same helmet on britishmuseum.org, and they claim it would actually translate as: Hieron, son of Deinomenes, and the Syracusans, [dedicated] to Zeus Etruscan [spoils] from Cumae
Here's the link to that one: http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...99519&partId=1
Here's a better view of the image:
And a link to the image: http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...99519&partId=1
And a different (better) view of the image: http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...bjectid=399519
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Originally posted by TheNikoWhiteIch View PostThe Facebook page that had that post supposedly about Myrmidon has this to say:
According to them, the text is "ΟΝΩΔΕΙΝ Ο ΜΕΝΕΟΣ ΣΥΡΑΚΟΣΙΟΙ ΤΥΡΑΝΑ ΠΟΚΥΛΑΣ." They claim that it should be read as "оно(вф)деин о менеос си(ј)ракосоиои ти(ј)рана поки(ј)лас." The translation that they provide is "Until the day on which the tyranny of Syracuse has an end."
Reading it a certain way (the way they claim it should be read), one can recognize Macedonian words. However, since they do not provide any sources for this it is really difficult to know if it's true. What I find to be even more strange is that a helmet from Italy of all the places would have Macedonian texts on it.
The page is run by a half serbian-macedonian who lives in Germany, he claimes to be a linguist but in fact he is a airplane steward. We were friends on facebook but he deleted me after once i did not agreed with his theories, it was his theory that homosexuality is a macedonian invention and greeks adopted it from macedonians.
Example, he says this is a macedonian artifact, my comment that this is no macedonian artifact and all others anti-gay comments were deleted (and of course we were banned from the site) https://www.facebook.com/MakedonEU/p...48492431828432
So i guess the guy is gay as hell
see more:
And it seems to be true
It is a fake person or as we use to say a attention whoreLast edited by MKD Hockey; 01-08-2015, 05:27 AM.
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Originally posted by MKD Hockey View PostSo i guess the guy is gay as hell
see more:
And it seems to be true
It is a fake person or as we use to say a attention whore
For future reference, let us also keep in mind these logical fallacies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy (Not necessarily directed at you, just a general reminder for all users).
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Originally posted by TheNikoWhiteIch View PostThe sexual orientation of the person running the page is irrelevant. Do you have any evidence against the claim that they are making about the inscription? Can you provide links that are relevant? Keep in mind, we're here to discuss the Ancient Macedonian Language, so any reply that is about the language is greatly appreciated.
For future reference, let us also keep in mind these logical fallacies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy (Not necessarily directed at you, just a general reminder for all users).
If you google
delphi hieron deinomenes
you can find more info.
I took a long look in this face-book page. This is a huge collection of pictures (thousands of them) not necessarily connected to Macedonia. Anyway, in more than 95% of them there is no description of any kind, so who can say. Some of the homoerotic pictures are genuine. I searched a lot about that interesting one with Zeus penetrating Ganymede in an awkward position under a shield with the Vergina Star and an inscription Eros Kalos (Good Love).
I didn’t manage to locate and confirm it so I don’t know if it is genuine or where it comes from. The guy in the face-book page seems to have zero credibility.
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