Inscriptions at St. Sophia (Ohrid)

[Carlin]

Just a bit of context. There are multiple historical biographies of Saint Naum of Ohrid. The first was issued in the 10th century and the second in the 16th century. Both of these were produced in Macedonia and written in the so-called Church Slavonic (i.e. Medieval Macedonian) of their respective periods. Then there are biographies written in Greek from later periods. The dates of some are contested and some contain inaccurate information - except the first one. The quote you mention comes from the 16th century biography. Here is the full paragraph:

A few points. The reference to Saint Naum growing up in "Mysia" suggests the terminology in the text may have been influenced by a Greek source. There is no evidence that he grew up in Bulgaria. As part of their mission, Cyril and Methodius taught in Moravia and Pannonia. The author is either using esoteric terminology or referring to the continuation of the missionary work by their students and those that followed. Further down the text, it refers to the Bulgar ruler Boris as a "tsar", even though he was never referred to as such whilst alive. It also refers to the "Bulgarian" language or script, even though nobody during that period referred to the language or script of Cyril, Methodius and their disciples by that name. None of the above is mentioned in the first biography, which was written decades (rather than centuries) after the passing of Saint Naum.

Thanks for clarifying - good analysis.

[Soldier of Macedon]

According to the Life of St. Naum Sts. Cyril and Methodius taught "the Moesian and Dalmatian genus" the Christian faith.

Just a bit of context. There are multiple historical biographies of Saint Naum of Ohrid. The first was issued in the 10th century and the second in the 16th century. Both of these were produced in Macedonia and written in the so-called Church Slavonic (i.e. Medieval Macedonian) of their respective periods. Then there are biographies written in Greek from later periods. The dates of some are contested and some contain inaccurate information - except the first one. The quote you mention comes from the 16th century biography. Here is the full paragraph:

This venerable and great father of ours, Naum, grew up in Mysia. Raised by his noble parents, he considered all nobility and wealth as weeds, so he clung to the co-apostle Constantine the Philosopher and his brother Methodius, who went and taught the Mysian and the Dalmatian peoples, and he accompanied them everywhere, even to old Rome.

A few points. The reference to Saint Naum growing up in "Mysia" suggests the terminology in the text may have been influenced by a Greek source. There is no evidence that he grew up in Bulgaria. As part of their mission, Cyril and Methodius taught in Moravia and Pannonia. The author is either using esoteric terminology or referring to the continuation of the missionary work by their students and those that followed. Further down the text, it refers to the Bulgar ruler Boris as a "tsar", even though he was never referred to as such whilst alive. It also refers to the "Bulgarian" language or script, even though nobody during that period referred to the language or script of Cyril, Methodius and their disciples by that name. None of the above is mentioned in the first biography, which was written decades (rather than centuries) after the passing of Saint Naum.

[Carlin]

According to the Life of St. Naum Sts. Cyril and Methodius taught "the Moesian and Dalmatian genus" the Christian faith.

[Carlin]

[maco2envy]

My theory behind the fact that Byzantine authors classicized most medieval Macedonians as "Mysians" and the region as "Mysia" is because Macedonia is the ancestral homeland of the ancient Phrygians, who inhabited the Mysia region together with Mysians in Anatolia.

In addition,

The classical historian Strabo groups Phrygians, Mygdones, Mysians, Bebryces and Bithynians together as peoples that migrated to Anatolia from the Balkans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygia

and

Little is known about the Mysian language. Strabo noted that their language was, in a way, a mixture of the Lydian and Phrygian languages. As such, the Mysian language could be a language of the Anatolian group. However, a passage in Athenaeus suggests that the Mysian language was akin to the barely attested Paeonian language of Paeonia, north of Macedon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysians

[maco2envy]

With all these natural advantages and an unconquerable army under his command, the man started on his campaign, and seized the city of the Thessalians, as we have said. My father, Alexius Comnenus, made his counter-preparations as if for a battle with the mighty Typho, or the hundred-handed Giant, and girt himself for the fray with an antagonist worthy of his steel, by summoning all his strategic knowledge and courageous spirit. And before he had shaken off the dust of his late contest, or washed the gore from his sword and hands, he marched out, his spirit all aflame, like a grim lion against this long-tusked boar, Basilacius. Soon he reached the river Bardarius (Vardar) (for that is its local name), which comes down from the mountains near Mysia, and after flowing through many intervening districts, and dividing the country round Beroea and Thessalonica into East and West, it empties itself into our so-called South sea.

- Chapter VII, Book I, The Alexiad

[Carlin]

Good point maco2envy. I've added it here as well.

Gregory Akindynos - native of Prilep, of Mysian race.

The following find comes from a BULGARIAN book.

[maco2envy]

It seems that the territory of the Triballi is roughly nested in Moesia, additionally overlapping with bulgaria proper, which all seems to add more confusion to the matter.

Since it looks like 'Bulgarian' was interchangeable with 'Mysian' by some authors, the term Mysians being used for the Slavic speaking inhabitants of Macedonia could possibly be related to the 'Theme of Bulgaria' being imposed on Western Macedonia in the 11th century.

Also in regards to Romans of the Byzantine Empire, I've heard on numerous occasion that the term 'Hellen' was reserved for remote pagans in certain areas that refused to convert to christianity. The adoption of the 'Roman' name by the majority of inhabitants of the Byzantine Empire seems as it was a way a cleansing their pagan past, which is why I think it's a form of butchering historical information when western historians replace 'Roman' with 'Greek'. But it very interesting to hear that some Romans went even further than that by calling themselves Ausones, almost as If they wanted to completely eradicate Hellenism.

[Carlin]

Thanks for gathering all that up, Carlin. It does indeed seem that the terms were used carelessly and/or generally by many authors. Thus, there isn't much to infer from the inscription on the church.

No problem m2e.

Just wanted to illustrate additional example(s) of unclear and liberal use of terms.

In some of the links I posted it seems the Bulgarians were called Mysians, while the Serbs were Dalmatians (while others yet, like Chalkokondyles, called the Serbs Triballians - Triballoi). Was this always the case?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voisava

Marin Barleti talking about the inhabitants of Upper Debar that defended Svetigrad, he calls them "Bulgarians or Triballi" -- Bulgari sive Tribali habitant.


PS: One more thing, unrelated. Above there is this quote:

"Even if the sun would have come down, I would have never thought that the Moesian arrows were stronger than the Avzonian spears. ... And when you, Phaethon [Sun], descend to the earth with your gold-shining chariot, tell the great soul of the Caesar: The Danube took the crown of Rome. The arrows of the Moesians broke the spears of the Avzonians."

Note that Avzonians = Ausonians = ROMANS (or "Byzantines")

Indeed, it appears certain from the sources that the "Byzantines" regularly called themselves Ausones, which was an ancient name for the original inhabitants of Italy. This was the standard "classicizing" name that the Byzantines used for themselves - not Hellenes.

See more here:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8435

[maco2envy]

Thanks for gathering all that up, Carlin. It does indeed seem that the terms were used carelessly and/or generally by many authors. Thus, there isn't much to infer from the inscription on the church.

[Carlin]

It seems evident from the medieval primary sources that the "Slavophones" of numerous Balkan regions, encompassing Macedonia and adjacent areas, were called by some authors Mysians or Mysoi.

To illustrate, and simply providing quotes as found online:

1) http://postimg.org/image/uiu1elwev/

In the Short life of St Clement it is remarked that the saint "drew his origins from the European Mysians, who were also known to most people as Bulgarians."

2) http://postimg.org/image/tz1tmct7h/

Tzetzes --> During his time some "Byzantines" called the Hungarians "Paeonians". Tzetzes accused them of ignorance and he said that if someone should be called Paeonians that would be the Bulgarians.

3) https://books.google.ca/books?id=iBO...ulgars&f=false

Per Dion C. Smythe, authors (at some point) began to call the inhabitants of Roman provinces of Dalmatia and Moesia (Superior and Inferior) as Dalmatians and Mysians (although not Moesians). John Kinnamos and Anna Komnene refer to the Serbs as Dalmatians/Dalmatian people.

4) https://books.google.ca/books?id=RCD...ysians&f=false

One more citation -- "...the occupation of Berrhoia by the Mysians."

5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...ates_of_Trajan

John Geometres on the Battle of the Gates of Trajan:

"Even if the sun would have come down, I would have never thought that the Moesian arrows were stronger than the Avzonian spears. ... And when you, Phaethon [Sun], descend to the earth with your gold-shining chariot, tell the great soul of the Caesar: The Danube took the crown of Rome. The arrows of the Moesians broke the spears of the Avzonians."

6) To add to the confusion, for Choniates the Mysians were Vlachs.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=WDRzBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA332&lpg=PA332&dq=mysians+vlachs&source=bl&ots=IxY521A_ew&sig=ZvUxRJsID4LtOo2bhTkSxv-OToM&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjHvvXBk_rRAhVq5YMKHQ-YDAQQ6AEILTAD#v=onepage&q=mysians%20vlachs&f=false

7) https://books.google.ca/books?id=QKh...rumeza&f=false

On page 55 we can read an example of the utter 'confusion' that reigned among "Byzantines" about who was who in the Carpatho-Danubian lands.

[maco2envy]

Moesia does make more sense, although Ohrid is not located in Moesia, atleast with respect to the roman region. But I've heard that the term Moesia was used more generally at a certain point in time.

[Amphipolis]

No, Moesia makes more sense (Ochrid is in Moesia). The two names sound exactly the same in Greek, but spelled differently.

[maco2envy]

Thanks for your input. I got the ‘Moesia’ part from a Bulgarian website, which in respect to the case where it really meant ‘Mysia’ they may have had an agenda to distort it as ‘Moesia’.

[Amphipolis]

Can't see clearly, so don't shoot me.

The clear parts starting from left is
ΓΡΗΓΟΡ (probably Gregorios),

then distorted part,

then ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΓΡΑΦΟΝ ΝΟΜΟΝ ΕΘΝΗ ΤΑ ΜVCΩΝ ΕΚΔΙΔΑCΚΕΙ ΠΑΝCΟΦΩC
which means "teaches in whole wisdom the god-written Law to the Mysian people"

If you're sure this should refer to Moesians, not Mysians, it is written incorrectly, or the Greeks had used different spellings through time. For Moesians the proper spelling should have been ΜΟΙCΩΝ.