I remember reading that during the ottoman occupation both Bulgarian & Greek clergy were busy infiltrating the Macedonian churches trying to teach the population that they were either Greek or Bulgarian.This is in the 16,000-17000s.THese clergy were working in a frenzy trying to change the religion of their respective populations.Obviously people writing about it keep harping that Macedonians are Bulgars or Greeks.The macedonian people are not stupid to change their religion for the sake of some clergy.
Tsar Samoil and the Archbishopric of Ohrid in Macedonia
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"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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I remember reading that during the ottoman occupation both Bulgarian & Greek clergy were busy infiltrating the Macedonian churches trying to teach the population that they were either Greek or Bulgarian.This is in the 16,000-17000s.THese clergy were working in a frenzy trying to change the religion of their respective populations.Obviously people writing about it keep harping that Macedonians are Bulgars or Greeks.The macedonian people are not stupid to change their religion for the sake of some clergy.
It was the Greek clergy that had full authority in the Ottoman lands, and Macedonians and Bulgarians alike were grouped under the Greek Millet. No one was changing the religion, as it was/is the same religion, the Greeks were just seen as the official administrative unit of Eastern Orthodox populations in Macedonia and Bulgaria.
And if you really read up on this topic in detail.. it seems that most of the Bulgarian clergy were Macedonians.
This is exactly what I’m trying to learn more about, there was obviously some connection between Macedonians and Bulgarians that was not shared by either Serbs or Greeks.
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Originally posted by BratotP.S. Old fashioned, bulgarian deja vu propaganda. Always claiming some ancestry from Ohrid(mk) or Pirin just to add some value to the propaganda, those kind of bullshits keep for yourself Ganchos.
Originally posted by "OhridskiThis is exactly what I’m trying to learn more about, there was obviously some connection between Macedonians and Bulgarians that was not shared by either Serbs or Greeks.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Ohridski, i know what i'm talking about.I don't beleive that the Macedonians ie the clergy would teach their flock bulgarian.You forget that during the ottoman occupation the Bulgarian clergy were trying to teach the Macedonians that they were Bulgarian.This was heavy duty propaganda from the bulgarians aimed to the macedonians to tell them that they were bulgarian.You say it was Macedonian clergy that's wrong why would macedonians teach themselves to be bulgarian???Why did the bulgarians try to do this it was for dominance.Over time we can see like the other neighbouring countries like bulgaria
wanted macedonian lands.If you look at your history there is no BUlgarians they are tartars.They adopted the macedonian language & customs.THat is the only link we have with the bulgarians."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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If they are that obvious even to an 'ethnic Canadian' like yourself, why are you still trying to learn about them? What are they? Why are they so?
One of my parents is from Macedonia and the other from Bulgaria, but I grew up in Canada.
Ohridski, i know what i'm talking about.I don't beleive that the Macedonians ie the clergy would teach their flock bulgarian.You forget that during the ottoman occupation the Bulgarian clergy were trying to teach the Macedonians that they were Bulgarian.This was heavy duty propaganda from the bulgarians aimed to the macedonians to tell them that they were bulgarian.You say it was Macedonian clergy that's wrong why would macedonians teach themselves to be bulgarian???Why did the bulgarians try to do this it was for dominance.Over time we can see like the other neighbouring countries like bulgaria
wanted macedonian lands.
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One of my parents is from Macedonia and the other from Bulgaria.........
All sources from the early 1900’s show that Bulgaria wanted an independent Macedonia, free from the Ottomans.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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All the more reason why you should be familiar with these similarities or 'connections' that you speak of. Yet still, you haven't defined them. Are you waiting for something?
Which sources? Which Bulgarians? Can you corroborate anything you are saying, or are you saying it just for the sake of saying it?
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The culture, the cuisine, the traditions, the national heroes etc. are pretty much identical, yet it looks to me that Macedonians in general feel closest to Serbs than anyone else.
Which national heroes? Can you tell me which 'heroes' from Bulgaria are celebrated by Macedonians?
It seems everyone on here tries to differentiate Macedonians from their neighbors
You must be a sad little person. And if you really are from where you claim, then you don't know the first thing about your true history. Go and find a Bulgar to hug and talk about your 'connections', it will make you feel better than dealing with people who will, by default, bring reality and the Macedonian truth to your attention, wether you like it or not.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Which national heroes? Can you tell me which 'heroes' from Bulgaria are celebrated by Macedonians?
What culture, cuisine and traditions? How much of it is not shared by other neighbours? Why the lack of transparency in your posts? Who are you to make the false judgement that Macedonians feel closer to Serbs than anyone else? Which Macedonians, from the Republic? From Pirin? You're a propagandist fool.
Is there something wrong with people that are dedicated to the unique aspects of Macedonian culture? It seems that your whole aim since you arrived here has been to deface anything unique about Macedonian culture and smear it with Bulgar or Serb lies.
You must be a sad little person. And if you really are from where you claim, then you don't know the first thing about your true history. Go and find a Bulgar to hug and talk about your 'connections', it will make you feel better than dealing with people who will, by default, bring reality and the Macedonian truth to your attention, wether you like it or not.
As I said, from what I’ve read, Macedonians and Bulgarians were much closer in the past then they are today, which is why I believe that the differences are primarily political. Why else would Macedonians immigrate to Bulgaria when the Serbs and Greeks occupied Macedonia? About ¼ of Bulgarians today descend from Macedonia.
On the other hand, I don’t know of any Bulgarian invasion in Macedonia that caused Macedonians to immigrate to Serbia or Greece.
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Originally posted by ohridski View PostGeorge, I think you are a bit confused. The religion of Macedonians, Bulgarians, and Greeks is one and the same; Eastern Orthodox.
It was the Greek clergy that had full authority in the Ottoman lands, and Macedonians and Bulgarians alike were grouped under the Greek Millet. No one was changing the religion, as it was/is the same religion, the Greeks were just seen as the official administrative unit of Eastern Orthodox populations in Macedonia and Bulgaria.
And if you really read up on this topic in detail.. it seems that most of the Bulgarian clergy were Macedonians.
This is exactly what I’m trying to learn more about, there was obviously some connection between Macedonians and Bulgarians that was not shared by either Serbs or Greeks.
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Within the Ottoman Empire, the East Orthodox populations were all administratively placed under the Greek Millet. The clergy of the Greek Millet was Greek. There are many uncertainties as, even today, a person who is East Orthodox and speaks Greek is considered to be purely Greek in Greece.Last edited by ohridski; 11-21-2009, 04:16 PM.
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SoM asked;
Which national heroes? Can you tell me which 'heroes' from Bulgaria are celebrated by Macedonians?
Dame Gruev, Krste Misirkov, Yane Sandanski and so forth. These are all shared. I don't know of any such historic figures that are shared between Macedonians and Serbs or Greeks.
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Gruev was born in Smilevo, Sandanski near Melnik, and Misirkov in Pella.
Are we to conclude that if a white person is born in Africa that person should be classified as an ethnic African?
The point is that all of the shared national heroes (between Macedonia and Bulgaria) have at one point or another identified as both; Macedonian and Bulgarian.
And as I mentioned before, ethnicity is a learned trait. You are what you feel yourself to be, you are not born as an ethnic anything.
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So then we are to judge a person’s ethnicity based on their birth place!? I was born in Ohrid, but I feel Canadian and identify as such ethnically.
Are we to conclude that if a white person is born in Africa that person should be classified as an ethnic African?
The point is that all of the shared national heroes (between Macedonia and Bulgaria) have at one point or another identified as both; Macedonian and Bulgarian.
And as I mentioned before, ethnicity is a learned trait. You are what you feel yourself to be, you are not born as an ethnic anything.Last edited by TrueMacedonian; 11-21-2009, 04:50 PM.
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Originally posted by ohridski View PostWithin the Ottoman Empire, the East Orthodox populations were all administratively placed under the Greek Millet. The clergy of the Greek Millet was Greek. There are many uncertainties as, even today, a person who is East Orthodox and speaks Greek is considered to be purely Greek in Greece.
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