"Greek" life and thought from the age of Alexander to the Roman conquest

[osiris]

risto thank god our children will not be sujected to the same old tired propaganda we were in our school days.

[Spartan]

I previously wrote:
The book goes on to explain many issues pertaining to an evolving civilisation. I will read it further and post again. But I thought it was exquisite timing that my 13 year old son was preparing an essay for school. The task was "would you prefer to have been an Athenian or a Spartan"?

What an easy question
Tell your son to e-mail me, ill give him a thousand reasons, lol

Naturally, I told him to write Macedonian ... you employ the Athenians and whip the Spartans on a daily basis.

It was one time Risto! Once!! please stop rubbing it in

1.Interestingly, my son did ask whether all Athenians were intelligent
2.and in fact whether all Spartans were awesome fighters.

1. No, mostly the elite or wealthy
2. Yes, they had to be, to be considered an official 'Spartan'

[Risto the Great]

Great stuff Spartan.
Truthfully, the fighter in me loves the concept of an organised fighting State like Sparta.
The philosopher in me likes the Athenians.
And this is the reason why many embrace these simple reflections on history.
As an example in relation to Spartans, whilst they all trained to fight and reached a minimum standard of ability that exceeded most other nations, it really does not do them much justice to learn they left no fighting legacies or styles for the future.

But perhaps they should be best remembered as champions of women's rights.

I am not sure this will happen soon.

[Spartan]

aha
You are well versed in Spartan history I see. The 'womens right' comment gives it away.
You are also correct that they did not leave much of a fightng legacy behind, however I have read that the US Marines, after getting to a certain rank, are given some type of book with the philosophies and Dogmas of Lycurgus(my avatar, and father of the Spartan laws) translated to English.
Anyways, I was given a similar assign,ment in high school, and I remember my teacher drawing an interesting comparison to the Spartan-Athenian rivalry. He compared it to the cold-war, Russians were the Spartans and U.s as the Athenians. If you delve a little deeper, you'll see some striking similarities....

[Risto the Great]

Anyways, I was given a similar assign,ment in high school, and I remember my teacher drawing an interesting comparison to the Spartan-Athenian rivalry. He compared it to the cold-war, Russians were the Spartans and U.s as the Athenians. If you delve a little deeper, you'll see some striking similarities....

Yes, they are all Greeks. ha ha

Again, a whole bunch of convenient histories.
But, the Spartans undeniably lived under a strict and fierce code!

My household is run in a similar way ....

[Spartan]

Mine too lol

[Risto the Great]

I came across an interesting term in this book.
"Macedonophiles"
Specifically in relation to many Athenians who were the subjects of Macedonian royalty. It is very illuminating and highlights the utter dominance of the Macedonians. Quite a contrast to the standard Hellenophiles we read about nowadays. When read in conjunction with an "Hellenistic Macedonia", it begs many questions.
I will delve into this term later tonight but found it interesting that someone 100 years ago had the clarity of mind to appreciate the Macedonian dominance in Alexander's time, yet seems to be out of favour to suit modern revisionism of historic facts. When I say revisionism, I honestly feel it is more omission than revision.

[Risto the Great]

The reader must remember that at Athens, and probably throughout Greece, the conflict was no longer between aristocrats and democrats, but between the rich and the poor. At Athens certainly, the Revolution of 411 and the Restoration of 403BC had settled that question. From thence onward it is a question how much the rich shall contribute, not whether the noble families shall maintain their influence.

....

The only remedy the rich could find was in the support of a foreign power, such as Macedonia, which sent a garrison with a military governor, who either controlled the populace by force, or by altering the constitution introduced a property franchise, so that the poor lost all political power, and were moreover restrained by troops form revolution.

....

We should expect to hear of the return of exiles of both classes, the rich or philo-Macedonian and the poor or Home Rule party.

Here we have a description of the philo-Macedonians (the rich Athenians) who needed Macedonia so that their newly defined obligations to the poor could be cast aside.

It would appear the rich Athenians were "begging for it" ... and Macedonia gave it to them "royally". (Pun intended)

[Jankovska]

Excellent work Risto- don't you guys find it very strange how no greeks reply to this posts? Their arguments are so weak, soon they won't even be able to bare to come and read.

[Risto the Great]

This through most of the earlier wars of the period before us (323 - 278) Athens was ruled oligarchically under Macedonia, for the remainder it was ruled democratically under the control of the bravest and most successful opponents of Macedon, and of that policy. At last it became nominally free, but so obscure and unimportant was its liberation that no historian except Pausanias has preserved the name of its deliverer, and we are reduced to fragmentary eulogistic inscriptions to discover the importance of the leading politician of the day.

It would appear that Macedonia represented the END of Athens.

[Risto the Great]

Excellent work Risto- don't you guys find it very strange how no greeks reply to this posts? Their arguments are so weak, soon they won't even be able to bare to come and read.

Thanks J.
We have much more in store for our friends down south.

[NikodimMKD]

Excellent work Risto- don't you guys find it very strange how no greeks reply to this posts? Their arguments are so weak, soon they won't even be able to bare to come and read.

How can they reply when they have all been banned?

[Soldier of Macedon]

They are not all banned, you're talking garbage. If you are referring to the racists, then yes, I hope they are all banned, but those who walk in shadows like yourself and pretend to be something you are not are still here, so you can reply on their behalf.

Everybody is free to sign up on this forum, the fact is, this place has a higher level of consistency and understanding of historical matters pertaining to the Macedonians so the average Greek racist on the net simply doesn't enter. Hence the reason why they come in disguise, like yourself for example, who pretends to have a Macedonian grandfather yet can't help himself speaking in defence of Macedonia's enemies.

[Jankovska]

How can they reply when they have all been banned?

You are still here and have nothing to say in defence.