Australian position on Macedonia

[TajnataKniga]

meto

Kniga, judging by your style in providing links, I am beginning to suspect we are dealing with Meto's shadow here. Hahaha


As for that resolution, it has some ridiculous assertions in it, such as the following: “A constitutional name is crucial to any nation’s identity, and it is essential to the inalienable right to self-determination, as enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights".

Our constitution was proclaimed in 1991 and easily amended in 2001 and it is the reason why the TRAITORS (and those sucked in by their propaganda) always place an emphasis on using the term "constitutional name" - it is amendable. FYI, the SMK and other politically alert and nationally conscious Macedonians and Macedonian organisations always use the term STATE NAME and have condemned those who propagate the "constitutional" terminology.

Meto used to use this quote below back in his early days and I suggest he go back to doing that again!

just because i do research im meto's shadow? maybe im a member of UMD? (actually i need to join and help them out) links are easy to come by indigen.

seems like you have been following meto for quite some time (an admirer?) go holbrooke! the guy is an arsewiper! he was the one behind kosovo and got us in this mess! the dear friend to gligorov...

[Phoenix]

Kniga...

Out of a total of 100,000 Macedonians in Ohio, how many are of voting age and considering the American system of voluntary voting how many of that number go to vote...so then lets assume you get your man voted into Washington when he then comes up against the BIG BOYS, those representing 'other' American interests, things like the Gun Lobby, the Tabacco Lobby, the anti-Abortion Lobby, the Christian Fundementalists, the Oil Lobby, the Jewish lobby...etc...etc...etc...

Yeah good luck...

[Phoenix]

ive come to the conclusion its not UMD, its meto you guys are sooo against. ha duh! i dont see the MPO alliance fiasco (other organizations are part of that alliance (are they pro-bulgarian?), and i do not see the leadership promoting a name change to macedonia (the interview is open to everyone's interpretation - how come only MTO is complaining about the interview and i havent seen any other macedonians complaining). like i said im macedonian and do not want a name change. have you asked UMD clarification? i think the group is doing a great job. im very new to the community so you guys maybe know more than me. have you engaged with the group? you brag about meeting AMHRC and how you guys are in line with your ideals, have you met with anyone from UMD? seems to me false judgments based on some misinterpreted words.

Aahh, slowly but surely Kniga you're starting to bare your arse...

[indigen]

your pulling s*** out of your arse Phoenix. you dont know anything about american politics. america is all about money and votes, and thats what politicans cater to.

You are rather cheeky and rude for someone "new" to this forum (and I assumed to Macedonian politics).

check this out

Ohio has a population of at least 100,000 Macedonians, and a large portion of them live in Columbus, said Andia Sangale, an advisor in Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman's office.

Can we back that up with some real source DATA, e.g. Census stats?

I know lots of politicians, Australian, Macedonian, and many others, who exaggerate the size of various ethnic communities in Australia but the Census results don't match those claims.


The REAL REASON for US recognition in 2004 of Macedonia under her rightful name, and anybody who denies that is a MALAKA, IMO, was to shore up Branko Crvenkovski and the SDSm government and to help him SINK the REFERENDUM for blocking the pro-Albanian territorial division of RoM. Had the referendum succeeded, the FA implementation might have fully unravelled and put into jeopardy USA strategic interests in "KOSOVA", e.g land and air supply routes for its troops at the "Camp Bondsteel" base.



Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo

[TajnataKniga]

maybe

Kniga...

Out of a total of 100,000 Macedonians in Ohio, how many are of voting age and considering the American system of voluntary voting how many of that number go to vote...so then lets assume you get your man voted into Washington when he then comes up against the BIG BOYS, those representing 'other' American interests, things like the Gun Lobby, the Tabacco Lobby, the anti-Abortion Lobby, the Christian Fundementalists, the Oil Lobby, the Jewish lobby...etc...etc...etc...

Yeah good luck...

maybe you are right Phoenix, i form my opinion based on my reading so i could always be wrong.

regardless whether bush did it for the ohrid framework agreement or not he stood up to the greek lobby (the greek lobby that plugs in a lot of money into politicans pockets)...why would he stand up to them? im sure there had to be some macedonians in america involved. i just cant believe he did it only because of a cia base in skopje or near skopje (is this true and can anyone give me a source?) or redistricting a bunch of municipalities in macedonia. what strategic interest is macedonia to the us?

[Risto the Great]

you brag about meeting AMHRC and how you guys are in line with your ideals, have you met with anyone from UMD?

I did not brag about this meeting at all TK.
It was a very poor choice of words and I think your intent has been less than genuine here.

In the first instance, the AMHRC (like the UMD) was given an opportunity to look at our Macedonian Cause and offer any reason as to why they might not be able to embrace such an ideological standpoint. The UMD has not embraced the sentiment (nor specifics) of the Cause. The AMHRC did without hesitation. The subsequent meeting with the AMHRC merely reinforced our opinion about the unquestionable intent of these extremely capable volunteers.

[TajnataKniga]

ohio

You are rather cheeky and rude for someone "new" to this forum (and I assumed to Macedonian politics).





Can we back that up with some real source DATA, e.g. Census stats?

I know lots of politicians, Australian, Macedonian, and many others, who exaggerate the size of various ethnic communities in Australia but the Census results don't match those claims.


The REAL REASON, and anybody who denies that is a MALAKA, IMO, was to sure up Branko Crvenkovski and the SDSm government and to help him SINK the REFERENDUM for blocking the pro-Albanian territorial division of RoM. Had the referendum succeeded, the FA implementation might have fully unravelled and put into jeopardy USA strategic interests in "KOSOVA", e.g land and air supply routes for its troops at the "Camp Bondsteel" base.



Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo

ok, indigen i think you are being ridiculous now...you are seriously disputing what the mayor's office of columbus is saying about macedonians in ohio? if the mayor's office wants to say that (THANK YOU)

what is a MALAKA?

[TajnataKniga]

glad

I did not brag about this meeting at all TK.
It was a very poor choice of words and I think your intent has been less than genuine here.

In the first instance, the AMHRC (like the UMD) was given an opportunity to look at our Macedonian Cause and offer any reason as to why they might not be able to embrace such an ideological standpoint. The UMD has not embraced the sentiment (nor specifics) of the Cause. The AMHRC did without hesitation. The subsequent meeting with the AMHRC merely reinforced our opinion about the unquestionable intent of these extremely capable volunteers.

apologies risto in my poor choice of words. not intentional.

im glad AMHRC accepted the cause - you guys have put in a lot of work in this definition of the macedonian cause. so the more support the merrier. approach them again and again and again. i would. i sent both organizations a private to ask them if they work together or worked together in the past. im curious.

[Phoenix]

maybe you are right Phoenix, i form my opinion based on my reading so i could always be wrong.

regardless whether bush did it for the ohrid framework agreement or not he stood up to the greek lobby (the greek lobby that plugs in a lot of money into politicans pockets)...why would he stand up to them? im sure there had to be some macedonians in america involved. i just cant believe he did it only because of a cia base in skopje or near skopje (is this true and can anyone give me a source?) or redistricting a bunch of municipalities in macedonia. what strategic interest is macedonia to the us?

kniga, Macedonia is but one 'strategic' piece of the puzzle for US foreign policy, the domino effect is all but complete in Europe with the Balkans being the final pieces of this strategy.

Macedonia had the potential to cause major problems as did the 'rogue' states during the Cold War period, the Yugoslavia's and Romania's of that time.

What has happened now is all of these states are squarely in the 'Western Sphere of Influence", what couldn't be achieved after WWII is now complete...

The added bonus of the current US/Macedonia relationship for Uncle Sam is that by denying Macedonian entry to NATO and the EU, Macedonia needs to hang onto the skirt of the Americans, this means that America can use Macedonia in any way it so pleases, we don't have oil but we have a strategic geographical position and we have a very elite special forces capability that Uncle Sam finds very profitable...

[TajnataKniga]

Phoenix, valid points. but can be interpreted as speculation. the US doesnt want to hang on to the balkans and constantly have to worry about them. macedonia is kade kade much better, bosnia is the problem. doubt the US wants to hang on to the balkans and have to worry about them. the US controls the balkans anyway. who just built a huge statue to bill clinton in pristina? doesnt thaci's b**** madeleine albright own like the telekom monopoly in "kosova" and also a major hotel in pristina?

[indigen]

ok, indigen i think you are being ridiculous now...you are seriously disputing what the mayor's office of columbus is saying about macedonians in ohio? if the mayor's office wants to say that (THANK YOU)

what is a MALAKA?

Give source statistics or don't make unfounded claims. In fact there are some US Census stats that show very low numbers for Macedonians. For Australia we have Census statistics of approx 83K and though one hears of exaggerated numbers in the vicinity of 500k.

I can point out media/police estimates of number of Macedonians at demonstrations in Melbourne (20k, 25K, 30k) and Sydney (10k, 15k) and what numbers can you show for USA protests in support of Macedonia? I remember one demo in front of UN offices back in 2001 where about 100 or so Macedonians turned out and most sporting the propeller flag as a symbol of identity.

Google for meaning of Malaka if you don't know what it means. :-)

[Big Bad Sven]

The Macedonian community and especially lobby is considerably much smaller and less influential then the “Greek” , Bulgarian slav, Serbian and Shiptar lobbies in the USA. The shiptar and “greek” lobbies being very influential.

According to US statistics there is almost 1.5 million “greeks” in the USA, while US statistics state that there are only 51 thousand Macedonians….

Fat chance that a “100 thousand” Macedonians in the states can compete with the cashed up big mouth “greek” lobbies and the mafia shiptar ones.

[indigen]

just because i do research im meto's shadow? maybe im a member of UMD? (actually i need to join and help them out) links are easy to come by indigen.

I would say you may already be a regular on this and Maknews forums but only the mods here may be able to determine who you are if they check some ip numbers with "network tools", provided one is not using some anonymizer account or posting from a different isp provider. BTW, I am not asking the mods to reveal anything.


You did not answer the following:

The REAL REASON (which was also the official one) for US recognition in 2004 of Macedonia under her rightful name, IMO, was to shore up Branko Crvenkovski and the SDSm government and to help him SINK the REFERENDUM for blocking the pro-Albanian territorial division of RoM. Had the referendum succeeded, the FA implementation might have fully unravelled and put into jeopardy USA strategic interests in "KOSOVA", e.g land and air supply routes for its troops at the "Camp Bondsteel" base.


As for opposing the "strong" Greek lobby, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLEAR TO ANYONE WHO WITNESSED THE EVENTS DURING THE 1999 WAR ON (BOMBING OF) SERBIA that it was/is of NO CONSEQUENCE WHEN IT CONFLICTS WITH US STRATEGIC INTERESTS. The "powerful" Greek lobby, great friend and ally of the Serbs, in Australia was nowhere to be seen and I dare say the US one was equally silent.

[Soldier of Macedon]

watching this interview i dont see how meto has compromised the macedonian cause.

Well then our definition of the Macedonian cause differs somewhat. If you see nothing wrong with what Meto said, then you are not lookiing at the matter objectively, and you are, for all intents and purposes, an apologist for him and his hazy policies and statements.

Henceforth, please refer to Macedonia as Democratic when in the context of international organisations, as Upper in the context of bilateral dealings, and as the Republic for all other uses - You have just admitted that you see no compromise in this, remember that.

And if those 3 variants aren't enough for you, create another one that can be used in the US, just in case the American arse requires a few more pecks.

[Prolet]

Ohio has a population of at least 100,000 Macedonians, and a large portion of them live in Columbus, said Andia Sangale, an advisor in Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman's office.

I think she is talking about the city of Macedonia in Ohio

http://www.macedonia.oh.us/