Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Pelister]

What kind of message is Gruevski sending to the world?

Why reward such aggression, by actually engaging the Terms that the 'Greeks' have put to us? Why not fight such accusations and claims in the institutions in which they are raised, such as the United Nations? Why would Gruevski take the question of our identity, outside a formal institution, and make it a foriegn policy objective of his entire government, and supposedly the Macedonian people when clearly it is a matter that should have been confined to the U.N institution only? When did this go from an "in house" problem at the United Nations, to become the entire problem of the entire Macedonian nation, and its people? People need to think about the 'road' that Gruevski has us on. He has single handedly turned what should have been an "in house" issue at the United Nations institution, into a far bigger and a far deadlier problem. He proposes NOW to put the question of our political existence to a vote? Consider where Gruevski is going with all of this. He has been informed by legal experts, that the UN INSTITUTION does not have the right to officially prevent us from entering its organisation under our name. Rather than puruse this issue within the confines of the United Nations institution - he is now proposing to put the question of our political existence to an actual national vote. Does anyone understand how insane that is? People must understand that Gruevski has single handedly put us in this position.

[Pelister]

I'm sick of 'debates' about our identity and our name. Gruevski has been 'silent' on it for too long. Rather than actually debate the historical issues, or pursue a remedy within the confines of the UN institution, what has this fker gone and done - proposed that the question of our political existence be put to a vote. He has chosen to pursue actions that threaten our existence.

[indigen]

Same old miserable half baked ideologies. I propose Lugendetektor use the following sun:


Originally Posted by Lügendetektor
Dude, any flag containing the fuckin macedonian sun!!!


it looks kinda cool.

haha....

The following is a cross-reference for further enlightenment for those that missed earlier discussion on this topic:

Nikola Gruevski comes out on the name issue

Q10. Does Grujo promote the SYMBOL of TREASON and CAPITULATION - The VENTILATOR "STATE FLAG" with pomp and ceremony and sponsors spin-doctors to spin delusional stories about its supposedly ancient origin and design inspiration (which can not be found in the period of 1995-1998, in the time of the rule of the original designers – SDSM!)?


Original Grchev stylised design flag
Its relation to ancient rock art (and similar theories) is to be found only in the delusions of the current supporters of the SDSM Ventilator and the spin-doctors trying to drum up support for it use!

* Љубчо Георгиевски спроти изборите во 1998 година јавно се откажа од 16-зрачното сонце во интервјуто за "Нова Македонија", изјавувајќи дека нема да го врати


Stariot partiski grb na VMRO-DPMNE


Obezlicheniot i segashen grb na VMRO-DPMNE

Shto da ochekuvame od RAMKOVISTI? Totalna DEKONSTRUCIJA na makedonskata nacija i drzhava, do izbrishuvanje na entitetot Makedonci, e toa shto jas predividuvam kje bide (ne)deloto na RAMKOVISTITE!

Further reference reading at links below for those who don't know about the dirty deeds that led to Macedonia CAPITULATING and SURRENDERING its one and only SOVEREIGN FLAG:

Interim Accord

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3767

INTERIM ACCORD MACEDONIA-GREECE, 1995
http://www.mfa.gov.mk/default1.aspx?ItemID=394

-----------------

[indigen]

Same old miserable half baked ideologies. I propose Lugendetektor use the following sun:


Originally Posted by Lügendetektor
Dude, any flag containing the fuckin macedonian sun!!!


it looks kinda cool.

It sure does and I would like to add the following additional options from my previous endeavours in relation to this topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_flags#Military

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg/150px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Malaysia.svg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Namibia.svg/150px-Flag_of_Namibia.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallery_of_country_flags

Perhaps the SDSM Kretins were inspired by some of the above designs?

[indigen]

The country must first change its name in agreement with Greece and then join the alliance
NATO can kiss my Macedonian ass.
Traitorous governments, they both should be working as a coalition together , SDMS, VMRO, united , to save Macedonia. They are both involved in brainwashing the people.
Can someone please tell me , why the fuck then does Macedonia commit 250 Macedonian soldiers to NATO????????

Are we now in the game of being brainwashed by VASSAL politicians into partaking in a referendum for final Macedonian national suicide?

Иванов: Нова динамика во преговорите за името по изборите
Вторник, 10 Мај 2011

Претседателот на Република Македонија, Ѓорге Иванов во пресрет на неговата средба во Женева со генералниот секретар на Обединетите нации, Бан Ки-мун, изрази очекување дека по изборите на 5 јуни во преговорите со Грција за името ќе биде внесена нова динамика.



На средба со новинарите, Иванов информира дека име со географска одредница не и одговара на Република Македонија, додека за предлогот Република Македонија (Скопје), што беше прифатлив во Букурешт, вреди да се размисли и да им се објасни на граѓаните дека со тој предлог нема да се влијае на идентитетот.

Шефот на македонската држава најави дека по завршувањето на изборите, се планира средба на македонскиот преговарач Зоран Јолевски и грчкиот преговарач Адемантиос Василакис.

http://www.kurir.mk/makedonija/vesti/29004-Ivanov-Nova-dinamika-vo-pregovorite-za-imeto-po-izborite

[Volk]

My god...

[Risto the Great]

преговорите со Грција за името ќе биде внесена нова динамика

Wow. By offering an old suggestion and convincing the Macedonian public it is a good idea .... it is a "new dynamic".

Great stuff before a vote too!

[Vangelovski]

My god...

I love the reactions of sleepers when they finally wake up. Too bad this particular one will very quickly go back to sleep only to react the same in about a years time.

[George S.]

So i suppose when after the elections there will be a complete settlement on the name issue.This will be only on greece's terms not macedonias terms.I would say treason & treachery & traitor to the cause would be appropriate.Also how much do the macedonian public know or care to know of what's going on with their govt in respect to their name.In all of this something is not right why didn't the macedonian govt ask for something in return
as well as getting into eu/nato for greece to give it's macedonian minority respect for their human rights.Or this must be beyond their means to make demands.How much does one ask or have to do to save one's country you would beleive that politicians would protect our name & soveregnity but they don't.
Finally congrats volk has seen the bloody light it's unbeleivable..

[indigen]

I love the reactions of sleepers when they finally wake up. Too bad this particular one will very quickly go back to sleep only to react the same in about a years time.

Here is some more details from another source on the same topic. I would like to now see ALL the DELUDED IVANOV FAN CLUB point out how he is such a "great patriot that would never sell out our name"!


Иванов: За Република Македонија (Скопје) вреди да се размисли

Бан Ки Мун да инсистира и Грција да се придржува до рамката за преговорите за името, оваа порака но во вид на апел претседателот Иванов му ја упати денеска на генералниот секретар на Обединетите Нации на нивната средба во Женева.

Иванов по средбата изјави дека и тој, и генералниот секретар очекуваат нова динамика во преговарачкиот процес, но по изборите во Македонија. Бан Ки Мун бил постојано во тек со преговарачкиот процес за што Нимиц постојано го известувал.

Иванов на средбата ја повторил македонската подготвеност за взаемно прифатливо решение но во духот на процесите и резолуциите што се водат во ОН.

Претходно Иванов на кратката средба со македонските новинари рече дека на Република Македонија не и одговараат предлози кои може да влијаат на идентитетот, името на јазикот и културата. За предлогот Република Македонија (Скопје), Иванов рече дека вреди да се размисли и може да се објасни на граѓаните дека со тој предлог кој беше прифатен за самитот во Букурешт, Република Македонија (Скопје) нема да се влијае на идентитетските прашања. Секој па и таков предлог мора да помине и на референдум, рече Иванов пред да се сретне со Бан ки Мун.

[....]

Бан Ки Мун беше поканет да дојде во Македонија....."

Од Женева Миомир Серафиновиќ Канал 5 Телевизија.
10.05.2011, 19:21

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&egId=13&eventId=74968

For fair use only.

Makedonci, shto vi e strategijata i planot za spas od vakivte antimakedonski nameri na vazalskite izrodi i predavnici vo BaJRaMot? Vo najmala raka, barem ne im davajte kakva i da e politicka i materijalna podrska!!!

[Vangelovski]

Anyone that is even slightly politically switched on could see such statements coming from Ivanov years ago, based on the morally and ideologically corrupted views he put forward at that time. A couple of years ago he went further and started toying with the idea of a "razumen kompromis". It seems he has now blossomed completely with his suggestion that "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" is acceptable. Obviously he has been of this opinion privately for much longer, but its good that he has finally shown his cards publically.

Even so, the DPMNE (or is it DPSNE) fan club will find it hard to digest. They will inevitably pass it off as part the "Grand Strategy" originally developed by Gligorov, Maleski, Frckovski, Bitove etc, later inherited by Crvenkovski and Georgievski now by Gruevski, Ivanov and Milosevski. This amazing "Grand Strategy" seems to have crossed both the generational gap and political ideologies in Macedonia. Not only that, but this "Grand Strategy" has the fingerprints of traitors and self-confessed Bugaromani and Yugoslavs all over it.

Its amazing how such a "patriotic" initiative has continued for so long. Perhaps its because this "Grand Strategy" is nothing more than short-term, self-interested careerism?

[Bukefal]

Ne vredi da se razmisli, ic. Period .

[indigen]

Иванов: За Република Македонија (Скопје) вреди да се размисли

Ne vredi da se razmisli, ic. Period .

Mislam vasata poraka se odnesuva na citiranoto, so sto site cesni Makedonci bi bile na isto politicko i moralno stojaliste!

За предлогот Република Македонија (Скопје), Иванов рече дека вреди да се размисли и може да се објасни [Citaj moze da im se isperi mozokot preku proverena propagandna masinerija, koja povekje pati predhodno gi ima meleno!] на граѓаните [Makedoncite] дека со тој предлог кој беше прифатен за самитот во Букурешт, Република Македонија (Скопје) нема да се влијае на идентитетските прашања.

A sto mislite za slednive prasanja:

1. Sto mislite za predlagacot na preporakata i dali toa e samo "negova" ili vladina (zaedno so site vazalski strukturi sto postojat vo BaJRaMot) poraka?

2. Makedonci, shto vi e strategijata i planot za spas od vakivte antimakedonski nameri na vazalskite izrodi i predavnici vo BaJRaMot?

[indigen]

Anyone that is even slightly politically switched on could see such statements coming from Ivanov years ago, based on the morally and ideologically corrupted views he put forward at that time. A couple of years ago he went further and started toying with the idea of a "razumen kompromis". It seems he has now blossomed completely with his suggestion that "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" is acceptable. Obviously he has been of this opinion privately for much longer, but its good that he has finally shown his cards publically.

Even so, the DPMNE (or is it DPSNE) fan club will find it hard to digest. They will inevitably pass it off as part the "Grand Strategy" originally developed by Gligorov, Maleski, Frckovski, Bitove etc, later inherited by Crvenkovski and Georgievski now by Gruevski, Ivanov and Milosevski. This amazing "Grand Strategy" seems to have crossed both the generational gap and political ideologies in Macedonia. Not only that, but this "Grand Strategy" has the fingerprints of traitors and self-confessed Bugaromani and Yugoslavs all over it.

Its amazing how such a "patriotic" initiative has continued for so long. Perhaps its because this "Grand Strategy" is nothing more than short-term, self-interested careerism?

Sharp, precise, concise and very well summed up!

[Bratot]

Mislam vasata poraka se odnesuva na citiranoto, so sto site cesni Makedonci bi bile na isto politicko i moralno stojaliste!



A sto mislite za slednive prasanja:

1. Sto mislte za predlagacot na preporakata i dali toa e samo "negova" ili vladina (zaedno so site vazalski strukturi sto postojat vo BaJRaMot) poraka?

2. Makedonci, shto vi e strategijata i planot za spas od vakivte antimakedonski nameri na vazalskite izrodi i predavnici vo BaJRaMot?

The both sides of the coin are identical!

1. SDSM accepted DPMNE's position to go on REFERENDUM;

2. DPMNE accepted SDSM's position on the 'compromise' name.

09.04.2005Кованицата Република Македонија - Скопје е добра основа за водење на конструктивни разговори за името, но само во делот забилатералните односи со Грција, изјави денеска претседателот Бранко Црвенковски.

http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=45163

15.10.2008Црвенковски се враќа на Република Македонија (Скопје)

Претседателот Бранко Црвенковски се враќа на предлогот Република Македонија (Скопје) како замена за привремената референца Поранешна југословенска република Македонија

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=8D9F674A6A58204B96F3E82F2E077D74

- Првиот стратешки интерес на Македонија е зачувување на името, а вториот влегувањето во НАТО и ЕУ. За спорот со Грција треба да се најде фер решение. Такво решение е предлогот на Нимиц пред Букурешкиот самит - референцата ФИРОМ да се заме...ни со Република Македонија (Скопје), истакна претседателот Бранко Црвенковски на трибина во Штип „Македонија, предизвици“ ( 15.10.2008година).

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&egId=13&eventId=71978

There is practically no difference between these two parties!

Ivanov=Crvenkovski

DPMNE=SDSM