Originally posted by George S.
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Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue
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They won't throw a stone as a lot is at stake.Let me give you an example one of your minsters wanted to defect which is going to be nameless.He was going to spill the beans on the whole Greek crcus.He actually ostracised himself from greece as he knew the secret service was after him.He didn't dare say anything as whils't he was in greece but only after he went to the west.So throwing the proverbial stone is not the answer.The greek macedonians are greek but not macedonian.not the real thing. So amphipolis you used to be sweet sixteen and you come back as amphipolis."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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Of course Greece is a socialist country. The collectiveness in taxation and the attitude of Samaras as the one the only, after him the chaos, Godzilla will come out of the sea while the Santorini volcano will explode when aliens attack us from outer space, if he is not in power, makes.... Stalin blush!
Who was this minister George S.?
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Originally posted by spitfire View PostBut Eire is also used as a distinction.
In this case neither the Irish model works because Northern Ireland is not part of the republic of Ireland or a sovereign state.
Meaning South Macedonia, or Aegean Macedonia? Isn't it already used to describe this part of Macedonia?
Inside a country the name used is simply Macedonia. Just like Thrace. That doesn't mean there is no other land that is Thrace. It's how you call provinces inside a country. I don't see any relation to the name dispute.
How can the identity be changed when there is macedonia in the name with a geographical determination? Are North Koreans not Koreans? Even North Cyprus which hasn't been recognised by anyone except turkey as a state, is universally recognised as having Cypriots. Cyprus and Greece included.
That doesn't answer my question about the rights. It's repetitive of the above.
I gave this thread a read, approximately 50 pages. I see that from your perspective you don't trust Greece mainly and you find every suggestion Greece makes, suspicious.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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we dont have any problem with the name ,you got a problem coz you stole 51 percent of macedonia you are guilty as and don't want the world to know ."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostDon't pretend to be naive. If it became "Northern Macedonia" then the Macedonians in the republic will eventually become known as "Northern Macedonians". Such a divide is completely unacceptable when it comes to our identity because not every Macedonian is from the republic but every Macedonian has the right to call it their home. The Republic of Macedonia is the only independent part of historical Macedonia and is therefore considered the national state of all Macedonians around the world. The name must be Macedonia only.
It also doesn't make sense to call Macedonia 'Northern Macedonia' when there's no Southern Macedonian region in Greece... The southern most point is 'Central Macedonia'.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostWhere it counts on an international level it is Ireland. It should be no different for Macedonia.
It works perfectly. Ireland / Macedonia (Countries), Northern Ireland / Southern Macedonia (Regions in other countries).
So, I don't think that the Irish model is something worth discussing, since it's completely out of the proposals discussed in the talks. I'm pretty sure that this option has been rejected too.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostNot officially.
Your kinsmen do.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostDon't pretend to be naive. If it became "Northern Macedonia" then the Macedonians in the republic will eventually become known as "Northern Macedonians". Such a divide is completely unacceptable when it comes to our identity because not every Macedonian is from the republic but every Macedonian has the right to call it their home. The Republic of Macedonia is the only independent part of historical Macedonia and is therefore considered the national state of all Macedonians around the world. The name must be Macedonia only.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostYes, it does. If I was a Greek I wouldn't feel my rights are being impeded based on what I wrote.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostWe find the suggestions irrelevant and stupid because country (A) is being told by country (B) what to call themselves. Put any country in any of the brackets and it will sound just as stupid. Macedonia has the right to retain its integrity and shouldn't have to change its name to appease a bunch of misled or racist morons. Period. If you want to change a name, do it in your own country like I suggested. Otherwise, grow up and move on to more important issues that are impacting the Balkan region. This discussion has just about run its course. You are aware of our reasons and our perceptions. I suggest you start looking for another topic to discuss and stop looking for ways on how we should change the name of our state, because your persistence with this is beginning to sound chauvinistic and you're starting to push your luck.
I also expect that you have every reason not to trust Greece.
The dead end usually is reached like this. Lack of trust on both sides.Last edited by spitfire; 10-15-2014, 09:23 AM.
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Originally posted by spitfire View PostIreland has two official names. Not one. Here's a case where it counts
So, I don't think that the Irish model is something worth discussing, since it's completely out of the proposals discussed in the talks. I'm pretty sure that this option has been rejected too.
How do the Albanians call north Epirus inside their country?
Well, not really. They will be macedonians and the distinction will be only in a geographical sense. Just like Korea.
So if Greece chose to be called macedonia, it would be its right.
That would be way too difficult for someone who thinks of a greek by default evil.
Lack of trust on both sides.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Alright SoM, I see that you think of me as a chauvinistic pig and that I'm making suggestions, as if I'm the one in charge of the talks.
But anyway, since you don't want me to continue, I won't.
Just one question if you will, out of curiocity of the treachery government.
From what I have seen so far, the interim agreement has worked for macedonia over the years. I mean that over the years the stance of Greece has changed and most likely it'll change again towards the acceptance of the name used as macedonia. It has led to Greece's conviction in the international court if I'm not mistaken or using the wrong terminology.
Do you think that this is treachery because there was another way, quicker, more feasible, less treachery?
The reason I'm asking is because I think that the name dispute is in the way of macedonia in the EU and Nato membership, otherwise I'm not sure macedonia would ever bother discussing about its name.
I will not answer back of course.Last edited by spitfire; 10-17-2014, 09:13 AM.
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Originally posted by spitfire View PostAlright SoM, I see that you think of me as a chauvinistic pig and that I'm making suggestions, as if I'm the one in charge of the talks.
But anyway, since you don't want me to continue, I won't.
Even the first time I saw your post with the passport I already worked out that it was pretty much the same word just in a different language.
That didn't come twice to your head because all you care is to prove your point, rather than validifying your point.
I want you to continue Spitfire
(sarcasm)Last edited by Nikolaj; 10-17-2014, 09:33 AM.
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Originally posted by spitfire View PostAlright SoM, I see that you think of me as a chauvinistic pig and that I'm making suggestions, as if I'm the one in charge of the talks.
It has led to Greece's conviction in the international court if I'm not mistaken or using the wrong terminology.
Do you think that this is treachery because there was another way, quicker, more feasible, less treachery?
The reason I'm asking is because I think that the name dispute is in the way of macedonia in the EU and Nato membership, otherwise I'm not sure macedonia would ever bother discussing about its name.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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The real solution is for greece to accept macedonia's name that its a constitutional name and to live with it,Macedonia does not pose anty threat to greece.Macedonia should be allowed to join nato or eu uninpeded by greece.
The dispute is not really a dispute but a way for greece to humiliate macedonia and to foce her to change their name."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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Originally posted by George S. View PostThe real solution is for greece to accept macedonia's name that its a constitutional name and to live with it,Macedonia does not pose anty threat to greece.Macedonia should be allowed to join nato or eu uninpeded by greece.
Originally posted by George S. View PostThe dispute is not really a dispute but a way for greece to humiliate macedonia and to foce her to change their name.
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Originally posted by Amphipolis View PostThat's not exactly a solution for Greece. This is (officially) a dispute about the name Macedonia/Macedonian. Issues like history, identity, borders etc. are simply underlying.
Since you've said this countless times
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dispute
It's a dispute based upon the name of a peoples identity, which is unethical to enforce as a dispute in the first place.
This does not help Greece's image, it'll be the laughing stock of the future without a doubt.
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