Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Dejan]

I guess he's trying to show his relevance still, if he had any. But then again, our stupidity gave him relevance...

[Tomche Makedonche]

This useless f*cker... clearly trying to justify his position and annual salary again, can't wait till the next update in November 2016

[Vangelovski]

I think everything there is to say on this topic has been said.

Successive Macedonian governments would have sold us out by now if the Greeks had not objected to the capitulations that the Macedonians had already accepted.

Regardless, Macedonians will continue to negotiate in the deluded hope that they will be accepted into the EU/NATO while avoiding the perceived wrath of Europe and the US if they end the negotiations. Greece meanwhile (confident and assertive even when its on its knees), has no intention of ever allowing Macedonia join the EU/NATO (and probably for the best) even if Macedonia capitulated completely.

Perpetual negotiations are an end in and of themselves for Greece - negotiations are the perfect solution for Greece as it keeps our idiots preoccupied.

[George S.]

Macedonia should call off the name negotiations.Dont play in their hands and be cornered in a corner,The reason being that Macedonia was divided unjustly and one day all the parts may come together.Dont give in to them.You will be the loser Macedonia.That means you aren't a Macedonian and you have no rights to your name.

[Stojacanec]

What a load of rubbish! Compare and contrast...

Greece: Easy access to the EU and Nato, hundreds of billions in loans. Standard of living is maintained to level of Germany.

Macedonia: gets an invite we need to change flag, constitution, name....

[Gocka]

I think the Macedonian government benefits from the situation as well. It gives them a monster to fight against. Its the only reason DPMNE has been able to hang on to power despite the horrible shape of the country. People believe that DPMNE is defending them from Greek aggression. The perpetual negotiations also give perpetual hope that something better is just over the horizon. Other wise if the prospect of the EU was off the table, and the average Macedonian looked around his or her country, what is there to be positive about? There would be a rebellion if the current situation seemed like it was all you could forward to. Macedonians still believe they will enter the EU some day, unfortunately this is probably never going to happen and even if it does, it could mean more problems than solutions for Macedonia.

[George S.]

Mislat grcite nie sne kako offsi za sreizene.Ako go smenime imeto nemame noga da stojme da se vikame makedonsi.

[Vangelovski]

I think the Macedonian government benefits from the situation as well. It gives them a monster to fight against.

There might be some truth in this. It seems that every week there is an announcement that some new foreign company has opened shop somewhere in Macedonia. There have been at least six announcements like this for the Zabeni (Bitola) special industrial zone or whatever its called. Do you know how many have actually opened up? Zero. Its an empty field full of weeds.

Apparantly Struga has a Technical Industrial Development Zone - http://www.fez.gov.mk/home.html

Do you know how many companies have opened up there? Zero. Yet another field full of weeds.

Here's a nice little map:

http://www.investinmacedonia.com/investing-in-macedonia/technological-industrial-development-zones-tidzs

I wonder how many of these are actual businesses and how many exist on paper only, receiving some hefty "subsidisation" from their buddies in DPMNE?

[Gocka]

There have been 4 or 5 large companies that have opened up for real, mostly around Skopje, and I think around Strumica and Stip. The thing is that they still pay minimum wage, get all sorts of tax breaks and maybe even subsidies, in the end they are probably not worth it. Over the years. of the dozens of announcements only a handful have happened.

As far as the name negotiations go, the main reason it has never been resolved is that both Greek and Macedonian politicians use it to pander to a base. As you said Macedonia already capitulated many times, Greece still rejected, meaning there is another motive at play.

Frankly Macedonia is better off being left out of the EU. Let's see how this migrant crisis plays out, because there might not be an EU if things hit the fan.

There might be some truth in this. It seems that every week there is an announcement that some new foreign company has opened shop somewhere in Macedonia. There have been at least six announcements like this for the Zabeni (Bitola) special industrial zone or whatever its called. Do you know how many have actually opened up? Zero. Its an empty field full of weeds.

Apparantly Struga has a Technical Industrial Development Zone - http://www.fez.gov.mk/home.html

Do you know how many companies have opened up there? Zero. Yet another field full of weeds.

Here's a nice little map:

http://www.investinmacedonia.com/investing-in-macedonia/technological-industrial-development-zones-tidzs

I wonder how many of these are actual businesses and how many exist on paper only, receiving some hefty "subsidisation" from their buddies in DPMNE?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Frankly Macedonia is better off being left out of the EU. Let's see how this migrant crisis plays out, because there might not be an EU if things hit the fan.

The EU is a bureaucratic, undemocratic and bloodsucking organisation which is primarily supported by greedy politicians who hope to increase the stranglehold over their own countries. Macedonia (and the rest of Europe) is definitely better off without the EU. There must be an economic alternative which can better serve European countries.

[George S.]

In any memberships offers we should not sell ourselves short eg our name or any other thing to do with our identity.Greece is waiting for Macedonia to give in Greece will gain not lose our identity.Its probably not a good isea to join unless we are accepted for who we are.Greece is the one that must learn to live with its neighbours.We know how it acquired their part of our Macedonia.
So its imperative not to fuel the name debate by fuelling the fire by discussing it.Its very simple you don't discuss a change to our existing identity.Why just to please our neighbour bully.We need to assert ourselves more we will not be cornered to alter our name because it is our name.

[Stevce]

Macedonian would gain no benefit from joining the EU or Nato. They already gave up the 16 ray symbol which the Greeks knew nothing about before 1978. Macedonians should continue to improve the economy and living standards and not even bother to negotiate on the name. As Greece continues to decline the various ethnic compositions which make up modern Greece will start to revolt and break up the country anyway. Macedonia just needs to be patient and watch it happen.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-s-new-fm-set-to-visit-neighbouring-greece-06-04-2017

New Macedonia FM to Visit Greece

05 Jun 17

New Macedonian Foreign Minister Nikola Dimitrov will soon travel to Greece, to develop bilateral relations with its southern neighbor, and in hopes of opening the country's currently blocked Euro-Atlantic path. Dimitrov, who is part of the new Macedonian government elected last Wednesday, will travel to Greece by invitation of his Greek counterpart, Nikos Kotzias. The exact time of the visit has not yet been revealed. “Diplomacy's work is to build bridges, create friendships and opens doors and perspectives” Dimitrov told local media, revealing his intention to accept Greece’s recent invitation to visit. “Bearing in mind that the biggest challenge for our Euro-Atlantic integration is relations with Greece, I would like to reveal the new face of the Republic of Macedonia primrily in Greece. I am convinced that Greece also has interests in the European Republic of Macedonia,” Dimitrov said. Kotzias has said on several occasions that he would seek to intensify cooperation with Macedonia after it put an end to its prolonged internal political crisis which has been ongoing for several years. Former opposition leader Zoran Zaev has finally been given the mandate fo form a government after months of political uncertainty since a subsequent election last December. “I have had several conversations with Mr. Zaev and I will invite my counterpart Dimitrov to Athens so that we can find ways for intensifying of cooperation and solving of all long-standing problems ... in the spirit of democratic consensus” Kotzias said immediately after the election of the new Macedonian government. Greece claims that use of the word Macedonia implies a territorial claim to the northern Greek province of the same name. Athens has blocked Skopje's attempts to join NATO and the EU over the unresolved issue.

In 2008, Macedonia narrowly missed the chance to enter NATO solely due to the long-standing dispute with Greece. As a result, Macedonia received a conditional invitation under which NATO was obliged to invite the country to join after it solved the dispute with its neighbour. However, no further progress has since been made and bilateral relations only soured further as Athens kept accusing the former Macedonian government led by Nikola Gruevski of provocations. Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs at the US State Department, Hoyt Brian Yee, welcomed the fresh positive signals coming from both sides. He said that he hopes the new Macedonian government would work "to resolve issues with neighbors, including Greece." “I was very glad to see Foreign Minister Kotziasis from Greece extend a hand of friendship to his counterparts in Macedonia, expressing his willingness to talk, to meet his counterparts in Macedonia in order to move forward in the relationships between those two countries, which eventually, we hope, will lead to agreements that would unblock the path of Macedonia to Euro-Atlantic integration." The announced visit comes at a time when some Macedonian political observers believe that the new government could use increased US and EU interest in the Western Balkans to get an invitation to join NATO sooner rather than later – a path that would invariably lead to improving relations with Greece. The reason for the increased Western interest in the region, observers said, is Russia's growing clout in the Western Balkans.

So these clowns will now be revealing a new Macedonian face to Greece, where their foreign minister has already had several conversations with Zaev and co. Great. Not sure what actual provocations by Gruevski they're talking about. Anyway, Greece has been waiting for this moment. They know that Zaev and co. are more willing to readily compromise just to get into the EU and NATO. In an effort to prove themselves as movers and shakers and different from the previous government, Zaev and co. may go even further than the usual treachery we've come to expect from Macedonian politicians. None of this can be good news.

[Risto the Great]

It won't be a new face. It will be the FYROM face again.

[Phoenix]

...So these clowns will now be revealing a new Macedonian face to Greece, where their foreign minister has already had several conversations with Zaev and co. Great. Not sure what actual provocations by Gruevski they're talking about. Anyway, Greece has been waiting for this moment. They know that Zaev and co. are more willing to readily compromise just to get into the EU and NATO. In an effort to prove themselves as movers and shakers and different from the previous government, Zaev and co. may go even further than the usual treachery we've come to expect from Macedonian politicians. None of this can be good news.

I agree...

Interesting that one of Dimitrov's first FM gigs since being given the keys to foreign policy is a visit to the land of plate-smashing in the south.
I too wonder whether our friends in the south view ZZ and the shiptar mafia as a more malleable alternative.