Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Niko777]

At least 3 or 4 DPMNE MPs to back the deal with Greece

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-change-battle

[Carlin]

At least 3 or 4 DPMNE MPs to back the deal with Greece

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-change-battle

How many does Zaev (theoretically) have now, including those 3 or 4 DPMNE MPs?

[Risto the Great]

I'm not sure I believe the MPs are with Zaev at this point in time. I'm quite sure that could change quickly though.

[Pelagonija]

Just love the Anti Russian propaganda, never mind the tangible facts, just blame Russia, and backward “nationalists” fark if we only had nationalists.. and never mind ethnic genocide. If they’re right and moral let us join these “clubs” with the name we choose.

[Carlin]

I'm not sure I believe the MPs are with Zaev at this point in time. I'm quite sure that could change quickly though.

It seems we will know soon enough. Shekerinska said that if they do not convince the MPs in the next 7-10 days, they will call for elections.

URL:

https://www.24.mk/shekerinska-ako-ne-gi-ubedime-pratenicite-za-7-10-dena-kje-raspisheme-izbori

"The next 7 to 10 days will be crucial to decide whether there will be early parliamentary elections in late November if MPs from the ruling majority fail to secure a two-thirds majority to vote on the Prespa agreement in the legislature."

[Pelagonija]

Will sds get 2/3 in parliament with new elections?

[VMRO]

How many does Zaev (theoretically) have now, including those 3 or 4 DPMNE MPs?

I would not trust Branko Geroski, he is a an opportunist dog close to SDS.

[Risto the Great]

Just love the Anti Russian propaganda, never mind the tangible facts, just blame Russia, and backward “nationalists” fark if we only had nationalists.. and never mind ethnic genocide. If they’re right and moral let us join these “clubs” with the name we choose.

Agreed.
I can't remember ever feeling as persecuted for being Macedonian as much as now.

[Gocka]

Regarding the threat of early elections, Victor and I were discussing this the other day. It doesn't make any sense for SDSM to call for early elections unless they expect to somehow gain seats. I don't know how or why they would believe that they can get more seats after what just happened. It's a little worrying that they are calling for something that on the face of it makes absolutely no sense. It makes me think there is something going on that we don't know about.

If anything DPMNE should be the ones calling for elections, and SDSM should be resisting that. The only thing I can think of is that Zaev is withholding more information similar to his "bombs". All of the prosecutions against DPMNE leadership essentially stopped temporarily. Zaev may have damning information on many of these guys in the opposition and thus thinks he can use that to gain more seats. Otherwise I am at a loss to explain SDSM's recent moves.

This is why we freaking warned the boycott organizers that they need to convince people to stop the referendum full stop. 92% approval is easily spun and boy is it being spun by essentially the entire western establishment. Now we are stuck trying to catch up to the situation, when we could have already been on a path to overthrow that scum weeks ago.

[vicsinad]

LOMA's letter to the State Department responding to their press release hailing the referendum a success, on the Makedonska Nacija website.

http://www.mn.mk/aktuelno/15278-Ligata-na-Makedoncite-Amerikanci-e-razocarana-i-obeshrabrena-od-soopstenieto-na-Stejt-Departmentot

Хедер Науерт

Портпарол на Депатмент

Стејт Департмент на САД

Вашингтон

1 октомври 2018 година

Референдумот на Македонија за Преспанскиот договор

Почитувана г-ѓа Науерт,

Лигата на Македонците Американци (ЛОМА) е исклучително разочарана и обесхрабрена од соопштението на Стејт Департментот на САД во врска со резултатите од референдумот во Македонија на 30 септември.

Референдумот ги праша Македонците дали поддржуваат договор меѓу Македонија и Грција, кој бара од Македонија да го промени своето уставно име заедно со многу други шокантни одредби. За македонскиот народ овие барања се неподносливи и недостојни. Затоа, тие организираа движење за бојкот за да го нагласат нивниот презир за договор кој ќе ја смени суштината на нивниот идентитет, достоинство и демократија.

Според тоа, околу две третини од Македонците избраа да не гласаат на овој референдум. Уставот на Македонија бара одѕив на гласачите над 50 отсто, со цел референдумот да биде обврзувачки, што го прави овој референдум неуспешен. Меѓутоа, игнорирајќи ги горенаведените факти, на 30 септември, американскиот Стејт департмент издаде соопштение за медиумите, поздравувајќи го наводниот успех на референдумот.

Македонско-американската заедница е крајно разочарана и обесхрабрена поради континуираната поддршка на САД за промена на името Македонија, кога огромното мнозинство Македонци се противат на промена на своето име. Македонците-Американци сé повеќе ја губат вербата во прaведноста и кредибилитетот на САД. Безчувствителниот и немилосрден напад врз волјата и достоинството на македонскиот народ во светот е речиси неодговорно.

(ЛОМА) ја повикува САД да ја повлечат својата поддршка кон антидемократските сили и политики во Република Македонија. Продолжувањето на оваа агенда за да се види Македонија по секоја цена како членка на НАТО, го загрозува мирот на Балканот. Ве потсетуваме дека патот на Македонија кон членството во НАТО не се наоѓа во континуирано суспендирање на демократските вредности и принципи. Соодветниот пат би бил проследен со осуда и исправка на неодговорните и шовинистички напади на Грција врз македонската нација и народ. Мир и стабилност ќе владеат на Балканот откако Грција ќе го почитува самоопределувањето и суверенитетот на Македонија и на македонскиот народ. Ова вклучува признавање на Македонија како Република Македонија, етнички македонски идентитет, македонски јазик и етничко македонско малцинство во Грција.

Се надеваме дека повторно ќе ја разгледате оваа неуспешна и неправедна политика во која барате Македонија да се откаже од своите принципи, достоинство, суверенитет и име само за да може САД да ги реализираат своите геополитички интереси. Ве потсетуваме дека американските интереси можат да се зајакнат само ако се почитуваат демократските вредности и принципи на кои се заснова оваа нација.

Со почит,

Виктор Синадиноски, коосновач

Лига на Македонци Американци

https://www.leagueofmacedonians.org

Leagueofmacedonians@gmail.com


Heather Nauert
Department Spokesperson
U.S. Department of State
Washington, D.C.
October 1, 2018
Re: Macedonia’s Referendum on the Prespa Agreement

Dear Ms. Nauert:

The League of Macedonian Americans (LOMA) is extremely disappointed and disheartened with the U.S. Department of State’s press release regarding the results of Macedonia’s referendum on September 30.

The referendum asked Macedonians whether they supported an agreement between Macedonia and Greece that would have required Macedonia to change its constitutional name along with many other conscience-shocking stipulations. The Macedonian people found these demands to be intolerable and undignified. Thus, they organized a boycott movement to emphasize their disdain for an agreement that would alter the essence of their identity, dignity and democracy.

Accordingly, about two-thirds of Macedonians chose not to vote in this referendum. Macedonia’s constitution requires a voter turnout of over 50% in order for a referendum to be binding, rendering this referendum unsuccessful. However, in ignorance of the above facts, on September 30, the U.S. Department of State issued a press release welcoming the referendum’s supposed success.

The Macedonian-American community is extremely disappointed and disheartened with continued U.S. support for a Macedonian name change when the vast majority of Macedonians are against changing their name. Macedonian-Americans are increasingly losing faith in U.S. judgment and credibility. The insensitive and relentless attack against the will and dignity of the Macedonian people worldwide is nothing short of irresponsible.

LOMA calls on the U.S. to retract its support of anti-democratic forces and policies in the Republic of Macedonia. The pursuit of this agenda to see Macedonia become a NATO member at any cost is jeopardizing peace in the Balkans. We remind you that the path to Macedonia becoming a NATO member does not reside in the continued suspension of democratic values and principles. The proper path follows a condemnation and rectification of Greece’s irresponsible and chauvinistic attacks on the Macedonian nation and people. Peace and stability will reign in the Balkans once Greece respects the self-determination and sovereignty of Macedonia and the Macedonian people. This includes recognition of Macedonia as the Republic of Macedonia, the ethnic Macedonian identity, the Macedonian language, and the ethnic Macedonian minority in Greece.

We hope that you reconsider this failing and unjust policy of demanding Macedonia give up its principles, dignity, sovereignty and name simply so that the U.S. can realize its geopolitical interests. We remind you that American interests can only be fortified through adhering to the democratic values and principles that this nation was founded on.

Sincerely,
Victor Sinadinoski, Co-Founder
League of Macedonian Americans
Leagueofmacedonians@gmail.com

[Bill77]

Regarding the threat of early elections, Victor and I were discussing this the other day. It doesn't make any sense for SDSM to call for early elections unless they expect to somehow gain seats. I don't know how or why they would believe that they can get more seats after what just happened. It's a little worrying that they are calling for something that on the face of it makes absolutely no sense. It makes me think there is something going on that we don't know about.

If anything DPMNE should be the ones calling for elections, and SDSM should be resisting that. The only thing I can think of is that Zaev is withholding more information similar to his "bombs". All of the prosecutions against DPMNE leadership essentially stopped temporarily. Zaev may have damning information on many of these guys in the opposition and thus thinks he can use that to gain more seats. Otherwise I am at a loss to explain SDSM's recent moves.

Apparently DPMNE leader Mickoski accepts holding early elections, provided that a new, independent prosecutor is appointed to investigate the numerous crimes committed by SDSM in the past year, including the referendum irregularities.

A) Fat chance Zaev will accept Mickoski's proposal
B) I think Mickoski knew this before he proposed it, so why did he do it? does he have no confidence in his party for an early election?

[Risto the Great]

Well done Victor.
The press release was highly offensive and deserved a rebuttal.

[VMRO]

The issue with DPNE is that it's a massive purge from top to bottom.

If early elections are held, the two faced politicians such as Rangelova, Manev, Todorov need to go.

Throw in the Bugarofil element that has come back in through under the guise of reformists.

[Pelagonija]

Imagine hypothetically sds lose the election, could we expect the condom revolution to resurface?

Whilst sds have control of courts and western and Albanian backing not a chance in hell, hence Zaevs confidence in gaining more seats.

[VMRO]

Imagine hypothetically sds lose the election, could we expect the condom revolution to resurface?

Whilst sds have control of courts and western and Albanian backing not a chance in hell, hence Zaevs confidence in gaining more seats.

There will be a technical government first selected where DPNE will most likely get the police minister role similar to how SDS did in the Przino agreement that started this whole mess.

Only negative aspect is what's the point if they go down this path as they want elections to be held quick smart in November....

This is either setup to fail or Zaev is biting off more than he can chew and will backfire just as the referendum did.