The Macedonian Minority in Albania and Kosovo

[Soldier of Macedon]

This is good news, so long as these families are actually ethnic Macedonians and not some others posing as Gorani/Macedonians.

[Onur]

I would not conclude that Macedonians who are seeking Bulgarian citizenship are the only ones who are not Serbophils. I think that matter is mutually exclusive from this issue. Do you know of anything that supports your perspective Onur?

I am sure some Serbophils have already become "Bulgarians" for the purposes of perceived economic gains.

Whether they are the ones or not, this is not the issue here.

The point is;
it looks like muslim Macedonians gives more importance to their own identity than the "perceived economic gains" unlike christian ones.

[Vangelovski]

Whether they are the ones or not, this is not the issue here.

The point is;
it looks like muslim Macedonians gives more importance to their own identity than the "perceived economic gains" unlike christian ones.

Do you have any more sweeping generalisations that you would like to enlighten us with?

[Voltron]

Why you people want to incorporate Muslims into your ethnos is beyond me.

[Brian]

Whether they are the ones or not, this is not the issue here.

The point is;
it looks like muslim Macedonians gives more importance to their own identity than the "perceived economic gains" unlike christian ones.

Vangelovski Post009
Do you have any more sweeping generalisations that you would like to enlighten us with?

LOL.LOL.LOL.
When a Black man calls another Black man nigger it's somehow cool but woe unto anyone else that dares to call either of them nigger.

Do you remember the thread where we were discussing Macedonians from RoM getting Bulgarian passports so they could go to work in the EU or pathetically just simply buy an expensive car cheaply (ie less taxes)?

Do you remember how many of us on this forum put down the 1 or 2 members who said things like 'you (in the diaspora) don't know what it's like here, why don't you sell everything and come live here and then talk' or 'it's fine for you in your mansions to preach patriotism to everyone when your pocket's full, try doing it here'???? Not that I am supporting them, but do you remember the thread?

Do you also remember that something like 7000 had done so recently and something like 17000 for the year? - I can't be stuffed trying to find the thread to give you exact figures but it was something like that.

So 17000 RoM Macedonians become Bulgarians and the MTO members go wild calling out "traitors" while (according to your above post) 21000 Gorani and others want Macedonian citizenship and Onur points out the bloody obvious and he's a bad guy??? I suppose if all the other MTO members pointed out the same bloody obvious thing they too would be bad? or is it like the nigger thing - you can put down Macedonians so long as you are a Macedonian.LOL. The inconsistencies are hilarious.

I'll put down anyone where it needs to be including the Gorani - where the F were they in the last 20 years? or is it now that Kosovo is mumbling about joining Albania that they realised they need an 'escape plan' and a Macedonian Passport will get them quickly out of danger if things get really bad there ie war with the Serb minority could engulf them???LOL.

Seems like everywhere (including Aegean Macedonia) Macedonians see patriotism when they perceive a gain and run from it if they think they personally have something to loose while the Lavoj fighters get shafted by the government as Albanian fighters get monument, a museum and schools named after them all with government blessing. "What an interesting country (we) have !!!" (Onur Post003) but as a Maco I'm allowed to say that, right 'nigger'?LOL.

[Phoenix]

Why you people want to incorporate Muslims into your ethnos is beyond me.

Voltron, my bet would be that your recent relatives had very few problems living amongst the muslim throngs of Asia Minor, afterall many of them had muslim customs even if they weren't muslim by religion, their customs most likely were.

I think its amazing that in a couple of generations you've degenerated into a total fascist twat...surely that's not the modern 'greek' ethnos...surely not...

[Vangelovski]

LOL.LOL.LOL.
When a Black man calls another Black man nigger it's somehow cool but woe unto anyone else that dares to call either of them nigger.

Do you remember the thread where we were discussing Macedonians from RoM getting Bulgarian passports so they could go to work in the EU or pathetically just simply buy an expensive car cheaply?

Do you remember how many of us on this forum put down the 1 or 2 members who said things like 'you (in the diaspora) don't know what it's like here, why don't you sell everything and come live here and then talk' or 'it's fine for you in your mansions to preach patriotism to everyone when your pocket's full, try doing it here'???? Not that I am supporting them, but do you remember the thread?

Do you also remember that something like 7000 had done so recently and something like 17000 for the year? - I can't be stuffed trying to find the thread to give you exact figures but it was something like that.

So 17000 RoM Macedonians become Bulgarians and the MTO members go wild calling out "traitors" while (according to your above post) 21000 Gorani and others want Macedonian citizenship and Onur points out the bloody obvious and he's a bad guy??? I suppose if all the other MTO members pointed out the same bloody obvious thing they too would be bad? or is it like the nigger thing - you can put down Macedonians so long as you are a Macedonian.LOL. The inconsistencies are hilarious.

Brian, I haven't as yet made statement on Macedonians taking out Bulgarian passports in this thread. My comments were about Onur's ridiculous generalisations. Or would you like to back them up for him?

Btw, what was it that Onur pointed out? Did you read his post properly? How does what Onur said line up with what you just said - highlighted. Onur was trying to say the Macedonian Muslims have more respect for their identity, as opposed to Christian Macedonians.

[Voltron]

Voltron, my bet would be that your recent relatives had very few problems living amongst the muslim throngs of Asia Minor, afterall many of them had muslim customs even if they weren't muslim by religion, their customs most likely were.

I think its amazing that in a couple of generations you've degenerated into a total fascist twat...surely that's not the modern 'greek' ethnos...surely not...

Phoenix during those times people were living within multi-ethnic empires not nation states. That probably went over your head though.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix during those times people were living within multi-ethnic empires not nation states. That probably went over your head though.

...voltron, modern day greece is a microcosm of those very multi-ethnic empires, in your case the concept of 'nation state' is the product of a fabricated 19th century romanticism...hence your culturally turkish relatives several generations ago and your own pure 'greekness' today.

[Brian]

Brian, I haven't as yet made statement on Macedonians taking out Bulgarian passports in this thread. My comments were about Onur's ridiculous generalisations. Or would you like to back them up for him?

You are right that you have not made any such statements in THIS thread and to be honest I can't remember if you personally made comments in that other thread where it was discussed but many MTO members did.

Btw, what was it that Onur pointed out? Did you read his post properly? How does what Onur said line up with what you just said - highlighted. Onur was trying to say the Macedonian Muslims have more respect for their identity, as opposed to Christian Macedonians.

You were too quick off the mark - while I was editing my post to add something you replied to it before I had finished.

Onur sees the Muslim Macedonians in Gorani and Turkey showing fortitude in keeping their roots and being patriotic enough to seek Macedonian citizenship. On the surface this may seem right but my mind is so tuned to seeking ulterior motives in things that I see picki just about everywhere.

Brian Post011 added bit.
I'll put down anyone where it needs to be including the Gorani - where the F were they in the last 20 years? or is it now that Kosovo is mumbling about joining Albania that they realised they need an 'escape plan' and a Macedonian Passport will get them quickly out of danger if things get really bad there ie war with the Serb minority could engulf them???LOL.

Seems like everywhere (including Aegean Macedonia) Macedonians see patriotism when they perceive a gain and run from it if they think they personally have something to loose while the Lavoj fighters get shafted by the government as Albanian fighters get monuments, a museum and schools named after them, all with government blessing. "What an interesting country (we) have !!!" (Onur Post003) but as a Maco I'm allowed to say that?LOL

[Risto the Great]

it looks like muslim Macedonians gives more importance to their own identity than the "perceived economic gains" unlike christian ones.

It doesn't really look like anything to be honest. If we are talking percentages of populations, then nothing much is happening here at all. Nor do we fully understand the Gorani motivations which may well be economic ones more so than ethnic ones.

[Brian]

...voltron, modern day greece is a microcosm of those very multi-ethnic empires, in your case the concept of 'nation state' is the product of a fabricated 19th century romanticism...hence your culturally turkish relatives several generations ago and your own pure 'greekness' today.

It's the traditional way Phoenix, passed down from generation to generation - reinvent yourself to whatever your surroundings become, you know, guy says to a pretty girl, "What's your name?" Girl says,"For a EUR100-00 it can be whatever you want it to be."
Truth seekers have a hard time understanding this.

[Brian]

Why you people want to incorporate Muslims into your ethnos is beyond me.

They say the Greeks gave us democracy.
The answer to your question is like the difference between democracy and a Republic.

Read some of the writings of Goce Delchev (one of the founders of the first Macedonian Republic) and you may find the Macedonian 'openness' - even Turks who wanted to join the rebellion could.

It's ironic that modern Greece accepts (including according to her constitution) ANYONE claiming to FEEL Greek AND are Greek Orthodox so in a sense are 'open' and 'closed' at the same time while to be an ethnic Macedonian means you have to have Macedonian blood so in a sense they are the opposite ie 'closed' and 'open' at the same time.

[ProMKD]

The reason why this news (if true - hopefully it is) is so important and big to me, is because it is showing that the state has SOME shred of respect for the Macedonians in the region and wants to welcome them and give them some rights under the Macedonian constitution.

These people, along with our brothers all over the balkans, have been insulted, neglected, and deported for decades, and it`s about time some Macedonian government even pretended like they gave a crap about it.

We have a LONG way to go - but hopefully this is a beginning. It`s always better to start late than to never start.

I would like to see mobile health units, free exams, free schoolbooks and lessons in Macedonian, etc. There used to be a `mobile hospital`, which was a converted bus that travelled from Skopje to all the villages and provided medical services to the people. I don`t think they have this anymore, but it`s something that is needed, both in Macedonia, and to our people in the neighbouring countries.

[Voltron]

They say the Greeks gave us democracy.
The answer to your question is like the difference between democracy and a Republic.

Read some of the writings of Goce Delchev (one of the founders of the first Macedonian Republic) and you may find the Macedonian 'openness' - even Turks who wanted to join the rebellion could.

It's ironic that modern Greece accepts (including according to her constitution) ANYONE claiming to FEEL Greek AND are Greek Orthodox so in a sense are 'open' and 'closed' at the same time while to be an ethnic Macedonian means you have to have Macedonian blood so in a sense they are the opposite ie 'closed' and 'open' at the same time.

Greeks were also open to who fought in the rebellion (ie. Vlach, Arvanites) Only difference is, and to your detriment really is that you prefer to keep them at arms length, while we tend to bring them in and Hellenize them. More often than not that assimilation process is voluntarily. You on the other hand use the "blood" example as some type of argument in homogenos ethnicity which couldnt be further than the truth. That is the real romanticism.

Being Muslim does not fit in either one of our Ethnos. The sooner you realise this the better off your country will be. If they were Pagan, Atheist, or even Jewish I wouldnt say this. But being a representative of an occupier's religion for over 400 years simply does not make the grade.