Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC)

[Pelister]

I am happy to pay people for good work. But there is something very noble about volunteering your services (at such a high level of quality) over a very long period of time and I am sure George and his colleagues fit into this category.

Very true. It makes me bitter to know that while the AMHRC is working hard to defend our rights as Macedonians, against the appendage of the term 'Slav' to our historical identity and culture - Macedonians continue to use it more and more. I am p'd off by it all, but I still have trouble understanding how it is possible that the Macedonian politicians could be 'negotiating' our political and national identity behind closed doors and ignoring the truth of the history of the last century. I mean what the negotiations imply is that the New Greeks have at the least an equally valid, and legitimate title not only to the territory but also the adjective.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It makes me bitter to know that while the AMHRC is working hard to defend our rights as Macedonians, against the appendage of the term 'Slav' to our historical identity and culture - Macedonians continue to use it more and more. I am p'd off by it all...........

Rather than the armchair criticism, perhaps if certain Macedonians actually picked up a book they would know how to convincingly argue against its inappropriate use by those who wish to manipulate the term to our disadvantage. They may also realise that in a broader linguistic context it is no different than calling English, Danish and Dutch a group of Germanic languages.

[Pelister]

Rather than the armchair criticism, perhaps if certain Macedonians actually picked up a book they would know how to convincingly argue against its inappropriate use by those who wish to manipulate the term to our disadvantage. They may also realise that in a broader linguistic context it is no different than calling English, Danish and Dutch a group of Germanic languages.

I wasn't referring to you, SoM, and you have kind of distorted the point I was making by taking this line out of context. On the matter of the term 'Slav' I think I can make a case that you are manipulating the term to your own advantage, not ours. Anyway, this discussion belongs in another thread.

[Risto the Great]

I was overseas once and ended up with a group of Russian men. They could not speak a word of English. I ended up speaking Macedonian to them and we understood each other a fair bit. Is that because I don't speak a slavic language Pelister?

[makedonche]

I was overseas once and ended up with a group or Russian men. They could not speak a word of English. I ended up speaking Macedonian to them and we understood each other a fair bit. Is that because I don't speak a slavic language Pelister?

RTG
I understand clearly, however what response did we get when Gligorov proclaimed us as "slavs"?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I wasn't referring to you, SoM, and you have kind of distorted the point I was making by taking this line out of context. On the matter of the term 'Slav' I think I can make a case that you are manipulating the term to your own advantage, not ours. Anyway, this discussion belongs in another thread.

I don't need to manipulate anything. It is you who is trying to manipulate a term that you have used extensively up until relatively recently. But you're right, this does belong on another thread and your ignorance will be addressed there:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1947

I was overseas once and ended up with a group of Russian men. They could not speak a word of English. I ended up speaking Macedonian to them and we understood each other a fair bit. Is that because I don't speak a slavic language Pelister?

Good question with an obvious answer which shouldn't be expected from somebody that appears to suffer from a bout of amnesia.

I understand clearly, however what response did we get when Gligorov proclaimed us as "slavs"?

Makedonche, the controversy over Gligorov's statement has more to do with just his reference to 'Slavs', the clown said that we have 'nothing to do with' the civilisation of Alexander, thus implying that we have no ancestral links to the ancient Macedonians, which is an outright lie.

[makedonche]

SoM

Makedonche, the controversy over Gligorov's statement has more to do with just his reference to 'Slavs', the clown said that we have 'nothing to do with' the civilisation of Alexander, thus implying that we have no ancestral links to the ancient Macedonians, which is an outright lie.

I agree it was controversial and would also add that it was a negation of our identity and relinquishment of any association to ancestral links to the ancient Macedonians. Whilst they are differing statements and differ in types of impacts, the statements are damaging to our identity by association or denial of association - either way they have a serious implication on our identity and the further we distance ourselves from them the less impact on identity- your thoughts?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Macedonians don't use the term 'Slav' in an ethnic or cultural sense, or even in an everyday linguistic sense for that matter. It has no relevance aside from being a broad linguistic category which includes several languages in Europe. In that regard, it is a valid term and has been used by our own ancestors, thus there is nothing wrong with it so long as the topic relates to historical linguistics. But it should never be applied to us as an ethnicity or culture. Clear as day, expect for people like Pelister who for some reason like to muddy the waters between the two. I would rather Macedonians better educate themselves about the term instead of ignoring it or creating smoke like Pelister does. At least that way we have strong arguments to convince people why it should and shouldn't be used in specific contexts.

[Risto the Great]

RTG
I understand clearly, however what response did we get when Gligorov proclaimed us as "slavs"?

I have never called myself a slav.
I am yet to understand what the term means.
I have less reservations calling my language a slavic language.

[makedonche]

I have never called myself a slav.
I am yet to understand what the term means.
I have less reservations calling my language a slavic language.

RTG
I know exactly what you're saying and mean, but it's inevitible that the "slav" comment by Gligorov has been picked up by those who would deny us our identity, and used against us when discussing identity/ethnicity, which is why I would like to see us distanced from "slav" term.

[makedonche]

Macedonians don't use the term 'Slav' in an ethnic or cultural sense, or even in an everyday linguistic sense for that matter. It has no relevance aside from being a broad linguistic category which includes several languages in Europe. In that regard, it is a valid term and has been used by our own ancestors, thus there is nothing wrong with it so long as the topic relates to historical linguistics. But it should never be applied to us as an ethnicity or culture. Clear as day, expect for people like Pelister who for some reason like to muddy the waters between the two. I would rather Macedonians better educate themselves about the term instead of ignoring it or creating smoke like Pelister does. At least that way we have strong arguments to convince people why it should and shouldn't be used in specific contexts.

SoM
That's right we don't use the term in an ethnic or cultural sense or even in everyday liguistic sense, however those that would deny us our identity are using as a stick to beat us over the head with - as you well know it's used against us in a derogatory manner and I think it is this desire to distance ourselves from the word "slav" because of it's derogatory implications stemming from use by our southern neighbours.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I know exactly what you're saying and mean, but it's inevitible that the "slav" comment by Gligorov has been picked up by those who would deny us our identity, and used against us when discussing identity/ethnicity, which is why I would like to see us distanced from "slav" term.

I agree that we shouldn't put too much emphasis on the term and use it only in a specific context, but 'distancing' ourselves from it completely is like running away from the issue rather than confronting it. And do you know what the result of that is? The people who wish to use the term in an inappropriate manner basically get the benefit of doubt. I am not prepared to allow them a free ride, nor should any other Macedonian, unless they wish to be oblivious to the rest of the world like Pelister.

I have never called myself a slav.

That is because there isn't a need for it.

I am yet to understand what the term means. I have less reservations calling my language a slavic language.

There really isn't much to understand. In the context of historical linguistics, 'Slavic' is an umbrella term used as an adjective to describe a group of languages, thus a 'Slav' is the singular noun to describe a native speaker of one or more of those languages - in the collective sense. However, such a noun is almost never required in everyday life because it is limited to a specific context (historical linguistics). It has little or no significance where it concerns the ethnicities and cultures of peoples who speak Slavic languages. I guess each linguistic group sees these umbrella terms differently depending on the way they've been used. Many people from Africa who speak Arabic languages generally don't consider it offensive being called an 'Arab', even though they aren't Arabs ethnically or genetically. Indeed, the official name of Egypt is the 'Arab Republic of Egypt', and there is no way that all of the indigenous Egyptians were wiped out and replaced with Arabs from the Middle East.

[United MKD]

Australian Foreign Policies on FYROM Name Dispute and Cyprus Problem Remain Unaltered

http://au.greekreporter.com/2011/11/15/australian-foreign-policies-on-fyrom-name-dispute-and-cyprus-problem-remain-unaltered/

“Australia’s policies on the name issue of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia remain unaltered. Australia recognizes the county by this name and our political line will not change as long as Greece and FYROM do not adopt a commonly accepted solution for the problem” told Foreign Affairs Minister Kevin Rudd to Greek-Australian Labor MP Steve Georgantas in a forum in Adelaide.

Moreover, the chairman of the Bank of Cyprus George Nikou asked the Australian Foreign Affairs Minister to comment on Australia’s policies towards Cyprus. Mr. Rudd said that his country recognizes only the Republic of Cyprus as a legitimate government and authority.

“Australia is supportive of the UN efforts to solve the issue between the northern and southern parts of the island in terms of a just and viable solution. Australia has a peacemaking mission in Cyprus since 1964 and will continue providing it as long as this is deemed necessary” concluded Mr. Rudd.

Mr. Rudd’s statement on the FYROM name issue was made just a few days after the so-called Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee met with PM Julia Gillard in Melbourne.

According to the Committee, the meeting was scheduled within their coordinated campaign aiming at convincing Australia to recognize FYROM by its ‘constitutional name’ “Republic of Macedonia”. Both the Australian PM and her attending Ministers did not comment on the Committee’s demand or make any commitment.

Australian citizens of FYROM origin have begun a campaign under the motto “It’s Time”, calling everyone to approach MPs of their area and ask them to revise the Australian foreign policy on the name issue and recognize FYROM by its name ‘Macedonia’ “as Australia’s allies have already done”. At the same time they are asking from Australia to create an Embassy in Skopje.

[Risto the Great]

Australia’s policies on the name issue of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia remain unaltered. Australia recognizes the county by this name and our political line will not change as long as Greece and FYROM do not adopt a commonly accepted solution for the problem” told Foreign Affairs Minister Kevin Rudd to Greek-Australian Labor MP Steve Georgantas in a forum in Adelaide.

Fair enough.
Macedonia is going to court to insist it be called FYROM.
Imagine if Macedonia asserted its identity, what a refreshing change it would be.

[George S.]

it's all going the wrong way it should be for macedonia.