Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[George S.]

Igor,Regarding property Bill,Can they pass this bill without consultation from the communities.Also is there any legislation that helps the communities by providing legal protection rather than open slather for the vladika to pursue.If he is constantly challenging the status of the community churches then he should pay for all legal costs.If he sells out to the serbs he is the biggest traitor there is.In my view if the sybod can be swayed to get rid of him because he is the problem rather than a solution.WE can see this vladika is pursuing his own interests & will do anything to take away the last vestiges of property & money away from the community churches..

[Bij]

Reverend Aleksovski's wife says that the information reached Petar via Mitko Mitrev, being the priest who conducts services for Petar at the Uniting Church property on Fredrick St. in Rockdale. Mitko Mitrev received the information from a former friend of Mrs Aleksovska. The thing that seems unclear is whether the 'friend' gave the information to Mitrev in the course of confession or otherwise in confidence.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to get Macedonians to take appropriate legal action when they have been wronged in Australia. This is particularly a problem with those who are recent arrivals from Macedonia and have a very poor appreciation of the relative integrity of the Australian legal and political system when compared to the Republic of Macedonia.

Is it not true that the priests wife and the alleged mistress were also once friends? Hence also the huge blow out between them?

[aleksandrov]

Is it not true that the priests wife and the alleged mistress were also once friends? Hence also the huge blow out between them?

They were friends and colleagues. They still are colleagues. There is a history of conflict between them at work, for which Olivera has been reprimanded by her employer.

We should really be focusing on more important stuff though, like the Property Trust Bill that is before the NSW Parliament.

[Bij]

They were friends and colleagues. They still are colleagues. There is a history of conflict between them at work, for which Olivera has been reprimanded by her employer.

We should really be focusing on more important stuff though, like the Property Trust Bill that is before the NSW Parliament.

The woman who has come forward as the priests alleged mistress was with his wife when she received the referral for her abortion, then he gets defrocked by the vladika, and you don't think it's important? Well I certainly wasn't the one who pointed out the mistress and the vladika had the same legal representation.

This is just another indication of petar's ties to low lifes and criminals.

[aleksandrov]

The woman who has come forward as the priests alleged mistress was with his wife when she received the referral for her abortion, then he gets defrocked by the vladika, and you don't think it's important? Well I certainly wasn't the one who pointed out the mistress and the vladika had the same legal representation.

This is just another indication of petar's ties to low lifes and criminals.

I think you might have two different women confused.

In terms of importance, I was specifically referring to the importance of the former relationship between Olivera and Aleksovski's wife. Of course Petar's conduct in dishonestly persecuting Aleksovski is important, as is his dishonest and unjust persecution of other priests who have refused to serve his morally repugnant despotism. However, the NSW Property Trust Bill is something that presents a much broader and more imminent danger, with more permanent potential effect. If it passes, it will legitimize and amplify ALL of the injustices that the Macedonian Australian community and the Macedonian Orthodox Church have been enduring at his hands since he became bishop.

[Mikail]

Hi everyone,

I just got back from Macedonia and have some info I found out whilst there which is pertinent to this thread.

Petar is loved in Bitola.

I had a long conversation with someone I'll call GP when I was there who said he was close to Petar and could call him to a meeting at anytime. GP asked me if I wanted to meet the Vladika and I replied, call him to a meeting if you can, he won't meet with anyone who opposes his position!

Needless to say the call was not made and I didn't get to meet Petar.

I explained to GP how the church was divided in Australia and that all church and community property now belonged to Petar. Not MOC!

GP chose not to enter that discussion and went on to tell me about what a great guy Petar was as he went to Albania and personally christened 60 odd children in one sitting. In his opinion, this was a great deed and Petar could do no wrong.

Bij, I told GP about what the priest in Sydney said to your niece. About the tactics they were employing to scare the people.

GP again didn't want to respond.

GP asked me if I could arrange to get him to Australia and that he would resolve this issue.

I told him that all Macedonians in Australia were behind MOC. That those not under Petar banner are supported by Gospodin Gospodin Stefan.

Now for the good bit!

According to GP, who claims he eats & drinks with Petar whenever he wants, Gospodin Gospodin Stefan hates the Egejci and wants nothing to do with them. This is why Nikodim Tsrknjas is not in part of MOC.

Petar tells Bitolcani that GG Stefan is against Macedonian people and that he can't do anything about this. That he has put plees in to GG Stefan to get him to unite Macedonians and GG Stefan stands firm in despising Egejci and not uniting us.

I told GP I found this hard to believe as GG Stefan has sent priests to Australia to churches who don't support Petars take over bid. That Petar will not meet with anyone to discuss the issue.

He said the reason why Petar did what he did was because "the Australians" went to church in their shorts and that disrespected the church.

[Prolet]

Good To Have you back Mikail

Gospodin Gospodin Stefan to me seems like an Angliska Kralica, there is no doubt that there are secret tensions between Bishops and there have been for quite a while now.

The problem with taking Nikodim Carknjas to MPC is that he is a priest and not a Bishop for starters, if we use him against the Greeks like how the Serbs are using Vraniskovski against us this will further fuel political tensions. I think its great that he is involved with the Human Rights Committee however putting too much exposure on him will only fuel further hatred from the Greek side.

Mikail, Whats the feeling like there with our people in Stari Kraj aswell as in Egejska Makedonija?? Did you cop a bit of slack about being from Australia and that you'll be forced to give $10 for our flag? LOL

They did it to me all the time.

[Bratot]

What a blamagen behavior...

[Bratot]

Good To Have you back Mikail

Gospodin Gospodin Stefan to me seems like an Angliska Kralica, there is no doubt that there are secret tensions between Bishops and there have been for quite a while now.

The problem with taking Nikodim Carknjas to MPC is that he is a priest and not a Bishop for starters, if we use him against the Greeks like how the Serbs are using Vraniskovski against us this will further fuel political tensions. I think its great that he is involved with the Human Rights Committee however putting too much exposure on him will only fuel further hatred from the Greek side.

Mikail, Whats the feeling like there with our people in Stari Kraj aswell as in Egejska Makedonija?? Did you cop a bit of slack about being from Australia and that you'll be forced to give $10 for our flag? LOL

They did it to me all the time.

There is other reason for Tsarkanjas being left from MPC and that's the serville politics toward the Universal Patriarch Bartholomew - the head of Istambul's patriarchy.

They are afraid of the 'implications', as they would make it from harder to imposible for the recognition of MPC.
But taking into consideration that Barholomew is a Greek patriarch it's pretty obvious that untill such position will be held by Greeks, we shouldn't be expecting revelations in their policy toward MPC.

Vranishkovski is actually a Greek puppet, not Serbian. The second, is only a mask for the real interest.

Their aim is to breake the spiritual moral of Macedonians, to neutralize the MPC of carrying the 'Macedonian' augury in it's name, putting on us Serbian spiritual rule and renaming our church in - Ohrid Archbishopric(POA of Vranishkovski).


While this clown Peter is a simple matherialistic govno to sell even his own mother for a sport car.

Sometimes.. there is only a one reasonable way to end a misery, amputation.

In the letter from the Cosmic patriarch Vartolomej addressed to the president of the Government of Republic of Macedonia, d-r Vlado Buckovski, delivered on 19th of October 2005, it is said:

“Dear Excellency,
With great pain we follow the prolonged static if not retrograde, to the decision regarding to the long-term and changeful totality of the “body” of the Holy Orthodox Churches - for church’s problem of your country.
We can’t hide the impression of our Holy Mother of God the Great Church, regarding to it the country over there didn’t play the required constructive role, it saw the whole question probably under an ethnic prism and stayed on the opinions which are little bit in conformity with for ages old valid church and holy canons’ rules. Surely, you can react that that is also done by the Serbian government. But with this Patriarch letter we are specially addressing to Excellency of yours and we underline the necessaryment for urgent change of the way of managing the problem by the Government, because the God’s solution is aridly being filibustering with your last opinion, and that, as the facts point out that you’re also properly understanding it, has direct consequences to the overall governmental base of your government.
For example, the Mother Church has addressed with a requirement by an official letter to us and required mine intermediation for releasing of the Holy Bishop Mr. Jovan.
In the previous letter addressed to the Mother Church in august you mentioned him as any ordinary citizen of your country, which is not in agreement with the basic rules of cultural behavior and to the respect of the Ecumenical Patriarch.
That’s why if it’s true, as we believe, you covet the regular solving of this church problem, you should hug, in my opinion, the Church’s thinking, because there is no other except this Holy Spirit unlighted by the Holy Fathers of the church, to bring out the Holy synod rules, according to which, the overall church’s body is been polities and controlled.
With this, with Our father God’s bless, we are remaining with deep love and respect”.

http://www.makedonskosonce.com/1_1/info/info_en/br595.htm

Do you understand it better now?

[aleksandrov]

...Gospodin Gospodin Stefan to me seems like an Angliska Kralica, there is no doubt that there are secret tensions between Bishops and there have been for quite a while now.

Petar's had his eyes on the Archbishop's throne for at least 20 years. He has gone to disgraceful extremes to defame and question the legitimacy of every Archbishop who has held the throne since g.g. Gavril, including Gavril himself, g.g. Mihail and g.g. Stefan. He's gone furthest in defaming and questioning the legitimacy of g. Kiril, who, as the only survivor of the three bishops who signed the declaration of independence of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, has been a front-running contender for the Archbishop's throne for decades. Petar's nasty campaigns to defame and vilify g. Kiril as somebody who is not a real Bishop, which in themselves make him unfit to wear the cloth, are the key reason why Kiril has never become Archbishop.

Petar denied the legitimacy of the election of g.g. Stefan from day one and has since juggled between discrediting and blackmailing Stefan into turning a blind eye to the non-canonical, unconstitutional and morally repugnant campaign Petar is waging against the Australian Macedonian Orthodox communities.

In being as cowardly and complacent as he is, Stefan has hardly shown himself to be a true leader and protector of the integrity of the Macedonian Orthodox Church. However, I can assure everyone that he is by no means a hater of "egejci". Any such propaganda is probably generated by Petar advocates.

If any Macedonian Bishop has shown himself to be hostile to the 'egejci', it is Petar himself. His original and most vicious attacks on the Macedonian Orthodox communities in Australia were targeted specifically at those old communities that were established by Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia. Particularly in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth, and to some degree in Sydney, he and his supporters have shamelessly and heartlessly worked to prolong and promulgate the "Egejci v. Vardarci" schism of the old Yugoslav paradigm, as part of his divide and conquer strategy.

The problem with taking Nikodim Carknjas to MPC is that he is a priest and not a Bishop for starters,..

Are you going to spread defamatory nonsense about father Nikodim too now, Prolet? For someone who plays so dumb and naive on these issues, you seem to have just about every malicious rumor generated by Petar advocates well covered covered.

Nikodim Carknjas is an Orthodox Archimandrite (the highest clerical title under Bishop), who has been purportedly defrocked by the Greek Orthodox Church due to his 'coming out' as an ethic Macedonian, his dedication to preserving and promulgating the Macedonian ethnic identity, language and culture in the part of Macedonian under Greek state rule, and his advocacy for the protection of human rights within the Greek state in general. There is no canonical obstacle to the Macedonian Orthodox Synod ordaining him as a Bishop. The key obstacle is Petar's opposition to Carknjas becoming a Bishop. Petar's collusion and signed anti-Macedonian agreement with the Serbian Orthodox Church, which is a partner of the Greek Orthodox Church in its anti-Macedonian stance, should make it pretty clear to you why he opposes Carknjas becoming a Bishop of the Macedonian Orthodox Church. Carknjas himself has been pretty clear about what he thinks of Petar's character and his collusion with the Serbian Church.

If we use him against the Greeks like how the Serbs are using Vraniskovski against us this will further fuel political tensions. I think its great that he is involved with the Human Rights Committee however putting too much exposure on him will only fuel further hatred from the Greek side.

I am sure that coming out of the closet and openly supporting the Serbian Orthodox Church decree signed by Petar, known as the "Nish Accord", will bring you a lot of love from the Greek Orthodox Church, Prolet.

[Vangelovski]

Good The problem with taking Nikodim Carknjas to MPC is that he is a priest and not a Bishop for starters, if we use him against the Greeks like how the Serbs are using Vraniskovski against us this will further fuel political tensions. I think its great that he is involved with the Human Rights Committee however putting too much exposure on him will only fuel further hatred from the Greek side.

What is this garbage Prolet?

This is the same rubbish that has been spewed by Petar here in the past. When the rally to promote Macedonian issues was held in Canberra in 2007, Petar claimed that the rally would only harm relations with the Greeks.

Are you and your master suggesting that we should relinquish our human rights so that we don't "fuel hatred from the Greeks"?

[Prolet]

Aleksandrov, Father Nikodim Carknjas to me is a great person and somebody i respect alot, i know for a fact that he is not a Bishop however he is a high ranking sveshtenik. We can all speculate the reason but only the Bishops in Stari Kraj know the real story.

I also agree that ArchBishop Stefan is not against any Egejci whats so ever, people have their own opinions.

Aleksandrov, Here is what Father Nikodim Carknjas had to say about Bishop Petar in an interview.

http://www.geocities.ws/svetikim/info.html

[Prolet]

Aleksandrov, Do you know anymore about the predlog zakot for Staratelstvo which Bishop Peter is introducing before the courts in NSW?

Владиката Петар и предлог-законот за МПЦ во Австралија

Канцеларија на Македонската православна црква, Епархија за Австралија и за Нов Зеланд


Владиката Петар е во посета на Епархијата и активно го надгледува разгледувањето од страна на парламентот во Нов Јужен Велс на предлог-закон за старателство на имотите во Австралија на Македонската православна црква, Епархија за Австралија и за Нов Зеланд.

Парламентот во Нов Јужен Велс го разгледува предлог-законот за старателство на четирите епархиски црковни имоти на кои се лоцирани Соборниот храм „Раѓање на Пресвета Богородица“ во Сиднам - Викторија, црквите „Света Богородица Пречиста“ во Ливерпул - Нов Јужен Велс, „Собор на Пресвета Богородица“ во Аделаид - Јужна Австралија и манастирот „Свети Прохор Пчински“ во Донибрук, Викторија.

Овие имоти сега се чувани од страна на три лица старатели - митрополитот Петар, протoјeреј Јовица Симоновски и протoјeреј Тоне Гулев. Митрополитот Петар, кој е назначен од страна на Светиот архиерејски синод (САС) на МПЦ и свештениците од страна на Епархиското собрание, како привремени старатели на овие црковни имоти до моментот на основање законски старател. Доколку биде усвоен предлог-законот во Нов Јужен Велс, горенаведените епархиски имоти ќе бидат автоматски предадени на чување на законскиот старател. Со ова ќе се реши долгогодишниот проблем на црковни имоти чувани од страна на лица поради неможноста за основање ваков законски старател во минатото. Важно е да се напомене дека овој предлог-закон ќе ги опфати само горенаведените четири имоти и нема да се однесува на имотите на која било друга црква или црковна општина, асоцијација, компанија итн.

Законот предвидува постапка за вакви и други имоти да бидат предложени за чување од страна на законскиот старател, но само доколку има согласност од страна на релевантната црковната општина или на кој друг било дарител, асоцијација, компанија, правно или приватно лице, но и со согласност на Епархискиот управен одбор (ЕУО), односно Епархискиот одбор на доверители на црковните имоти на МПЦ.

Парламентот на Нов Јужен Велс свика комисија за го разгледа ефектот на овој предлог-закон. Епархијата подготви детална изјава во врска со важноста на законот за МПЦ во Австралија.

Владиката Петар навремено ќе ги известува свештениците и верниците во парохиите на епархијата за напредокот на овој предлог-закон, со цел верниците да бидат информирани за овој значаен подвиг на нашата МПЦ во Австралија.

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=FD1BE252272F3F448DAD24406FB3705D

[Vangelovski]

Aleksandrov, Do you know anymore about the predlog zakot for Staratelstvo which Bishop Peter is introducing before the courts in NSW?

Владиката Петар и предлог-законот за МПЦ во Австралија

Канцеларија на Македонската православна црква, Епархија за Австралија и за Нов Зеланд


Владиката Петар е во посета на Епархијата и активно го надгледува разгледувањето од страна на парламентот во Нов Јужен Велс на предлог-закон за старателство на имотите во Австралија на Македонската православна црква, Епархија за Австралија и за Нов Зеланд.

Парламентот во Нов Јужен Велс го разгледува предлог-законот за старателство на четирите епархиски црковни имоти на кои се лоцирани Соборниот храм „Раѓање на Пресвета Богородица“ во Сиднам - Викторија, црквите „Света Богородица Пречиста“ во Ливерпул - Нов Јужен Велс, „Собор на Пресвета Богородица“ во Аделаид - Јужна Австралија и манастирот „Свети Прохор Пчински“ во Донибрук, Викторија.

Овие имоти сега се чувани од страна на три лица старатели - митрополитот Петар, протoјeреј Јовица Симоновски и протoјeреј Тоне Гулев. Митрополитот Петар, кој е назначен од страна на Светиот архиерејски синод (САС) на МПЦ и свештениците од страна на Епархиското собрание, како привремени старатели на овие црковни имоти до моментот на основање законски старател. Доколку биде усвоен предлог-законот во Нов Јужен Велс, горенаведените епархиски имоти ќе бидат автоматски предадени на чување на законскиот старател. Со ова ќе се реши долгогодишниот проблем на црковни имоти чувани од страна на лица поради неможноста за основање ваков законски старател во минатото. Важно е да се напомене дека овој предлог-закон ќе ги опфати само горенаведените четири имоти и нема да се однесува на имотите на која било друга црква или црковна општина, асоцијација, компанија итн.

Законот предвидува постапка за вакви и други имоти да бидат предложени за чување од страна на законскиот старател, но само доколку има согласност од страна на релевантната црковната општина или на кој друг било дарител, асоцијација, компанија, правно или приватно лице, но и со согласност на Епархискиот управен одбор (ЕУО), односно Епархискиот одбор на доверители на црковните имоти на МПЦ.

Парламентот на Нов Јужен Велс свика комисија за го разгледа ефектот на овој предлог-закон. Епархијата подготви детална изјава во врска со важноста на законот за МПЦ во Австралија.

Владиката Петар навремено ќе ги известува свештениците и верниците во парохиите на епархијата за напредокот на овој предлог-закон, со цел верниците да бидат информирани за овој значаен подвиг на нашата МПЦ во Австралија.

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=F...AD24406FB3705D

Prolet,

What do you think we have been discussing this entire time? How about you re-read this entire thread.

[aleksandrov]

Aleksandrov, Do you know anymore about the predlog zakot for Staratelstvo which Bishop Peter is introducing before the courts in NSW?...

Have you or whoever is feeding you misleading information to post on this forum read the first page of this thread?

Start from post #10 here: http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=3756