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  • Sweet Sixteen
    Banned
    • Jan 2014
    • 203

    Originally posted by VMRO View Post
    Please provide sources because your statement above has no merit without back up.
    One can find more about it in Wikipedia talk page (there are 3 or 4 sections about the Turkoglou controversy).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Evangelos_Venizelos


    Unfortunately many of the links regarding Dragoumis are dead by now as 7 years have passed.

    I would say the most useful link is this (Venizelos' blog from 2007).
    Αναρωτιέμαι πόσο εμπαθής μπορεί να είναι κάποιος ώστε να μπει στην διαδικασία να ενημερώσει την παγκόσμια τράπεζα πληροφοριών Wikipedia με ψ...


    Regarding the Greek embargo and Pangalos' statements look at this

    between 21:00-23:00 (the whole documentary is very interesting)

    Comment

    • Sweet Sixteen
      Banned
      • Jan 2014
      • 203

      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      Wikileaks or Wkipedia? It would be silly to sue Wikipedia if it appeared in Wikileaks. Can you get your facts right?
      Wikipedia. The Wikileaks simply showed that an American Embassy report had incorporated, believed or reproduced this rumour.

      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      Show me where he stated and subsequently retracted it. Can you?
      See my post above

      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      I don't even understand who you are talking about here or what you are trying to say. But definitely stupid of you to try and call some of your politicians as Macedonians in this context.
      Yes. When Pangalos says "politicians from Macedonia" he didn't mean Kiro Gligorov, but mostly Greek MPs, advisers or influential figures from Greek Macedonia. Actually, when he says "I won't say who did it" the video shows Venizelos. (LOL, probably a coincidence)

      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      Further, I bet you are not sweet sixteen. Your picture is much older than that.
      No comment.

      Comment

      • VMRO
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1462

        Originally posted by Sweet Sixteen View Post
        One can find more about it in Wikipedia talk page (there are 3 or 4 sections about the Turkoglou controversy).
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Evangelos_Venizelos


        Unfortunately many of the links regarding Dragoumis are dead by now as 7 years have passed.

        I would say the most useful link is this (Venizelos' blog from 2007).
        Αναρωτιέμαι πόσο εμπαθής μπορεί να είναι κάποιος ώστε να μπει στην διαδικασία να ενημερώσει την παγκόσμια τράπεζα πληροφοριών Wikipedia με ψ...


        Regarding the Greek embargo and Pangalos' statements look at this

        between 21:00-23:00 (the whole documentary is very interesting)

        After consulting with an Asian Minor scholar specialising in the names of Greek refugee families, Dragoumis has since retracted his original allegation and offered an apology to Venizelos. He now claims that "an ancestor of the Pasok politician - probably his grandfather ... came to Greece from Asia Minor bearing the name of Turkiozoglou (i.e. "son of a song-writer" as Turkin means song in Turkish) and changed it to Venizelos, a leader revered by refugees.

        Sweet Sixteen, the statement above does not provide any definite answer, it merely states his last name was "Probably" Turkiozoglou.

        I wonder how many others who came from Turkey had their surnames changed, all of them maybe?
        Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

        Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8533

          Originally posted by Sweet Sixteen View Post
          Greek Macedonia.
          What's that?
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Dejan
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 591

            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
            What's that?
            You beat me to it. Please explain S16...
            You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

            A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              What's that?
              I assume he means the part of Macedonia that is now occupied by Greece. I don't really get offended by that terminology. It is when they try to pass it off solely as Macedonia that I get annoyed. It DOES need a descriptor (unlike the Republic) IMHO.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Stojacanec
                Member
                • Dec 2009
                • 809

                Since a million people have been driven out and another million brought in to Aegean Macedonia in the past 100 years I don't expect the new inhabitants to have much of a clue of what Macedonia stands for.

                Comment

                • Vangelovski
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 8533

                  Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                  I assume he means the part of Macedonia that is now occupied by Greece. I don't really get offended by that terminology. It is when they try to pass it off solely as Macedonia that I get annoyed. It DOES need a descriptor (unlike the Republic) IMHO.
                  It offends me because it implies that there is such a thing as a Macedonia that is Greek. As far as I'm concerned the concept of 'Macedonia' and 'Greece' are completely separate and the term "Greek Macedonia" is a sort of oxymoron. For me, its also an insult to the Macedonians that were brutalised by Greece - not only were their lives taken, but now their memory and very existence have been misappropriated. The only acceptable references, for me, are 'Macedonian territory occupied by Greece, 'Aegean Macedonia' or 'Southern Macedonia'. Possibly some other combination as well, but nothing that implies that Macedonia, its people, history or culture are somehow Greek - which is what that term does. Its includes an ethnic Greek identifier.
                  If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                  The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    It offends me because it implies that there is such a thing as a Macedonia that is Greek.
                    I guess you have to define what you mean by "thing".
                    There is a part of Macedonia that is in Greece nowadays. There are bigger fish to fry. This coming from an Aegean Macedonian.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8533

                      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                      I guess you have to define what you mean by "thing".
                      There is a part of Macedonia that is in Greece nowadays. There are bigger fish to fry. This coming from an Aegean Macedonian.
                      I kinda defined that later in my paragraph. Terminology that implies that Macedonia (its people, culture, history etc) has an ethnic Greek character is offensive to me. Obviously a part of Macedonia is under Greek occupation and there may be bigger fish to fry (depending on one's own viewpoint) but I don't think you need to be a Macedonian from Egej to have special insight into that just as you don't need to be a Macedonian originating from the republic to have any special insight into what's going on there
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15660

                        I'd prefer a better way of saying it. But it is hard to dispute the term from a geographical perspective. I don't condone any other usage however.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • Sweet Sixteen
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2014
                          • 203

                          Originally posted by VMRO View Post
                          Sweet Sixteen, the statement above does not provide any definite answer, it merely states his last name was "Probably" Turkiozoglou.
                          I wonder how many others who came from Turkey had their surnames changed, all of them maybe?
                          All of Dragoumis claims were shattered. Markos Dragoumis was a controversial aristocrat (yes, he comes from THE Dragoumis family). He might have been simply the first eponymous person that published or reproduced this rumor (back in 2007), so all the Venizelos rage concentrated against him. That’s all. It’s not fair that I called him the “culprit” before and I don’t think he was the “evil forger” himself.

                          The definite answer was provided by Venizelos himself, who said that his surname is original, his paternal line comes from Carystos where Army and Church files are preserved since 1830s and anyone can check them and come back to him.

                          And then there was silence.

                          So, I assume Venizelos speaks the truth, at least unless something new comes out.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13675

                            Originally posted by Sweet Sixteen View Post
                            When Pangalos says "politicians from Macedonia" he didn't mean Kiro Gligorov, but mostly Greek MPs, advisers or influential figures from Greek Macedonia. Actually, when he says "I won't say who did it" the video shows Venizelos.
                            Like I said, don't mislead readers with such terminology. It is deliberate and manipulative. Macedonian is Macedonian, Greek is Greek. Call a spade a spade or get lost.
                            Originally posted by Risto the Great
                            I'd prefer a better way of saying it. But it is hard to dispute the term from a geographical perspective. I don't condone any other usage however.
                            It may be more accurate to say the Macedonian part of Greece as opposed to Greek Macedonia or the Greek part of Macedonia. But I guess it could also depend on how one would interpret each.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8533

                              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                              I'd prefer a better way of saying it. But it is hard to dispute the term from a geographical perspective. I don't condone any other usage however.
                              Granted there is no good way of saying it - it is a catastrophic situation.
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • DedoAleko
                                Member
                                • Jun 2009
                                • 969

                                Пред Велигден светна новиот крст во скопски Аеродром

                                Kрстот е висок 51 метар, и широк четири метри. Поставен е на постамент висок 5,5 метри. За потребите на верниците ќе има галерија на две нивоа. Околу него, пак, ќе има парк со зеленило, пешачки патеки и клупи.



                                Comment

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