Originally posted by Vangelovski
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United Macedonia Diaspora
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I understand Risto - point taken and thanks for not calling me a name.МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostHow about you?
I really like the thread that was created to define the Cause - this is an excellent initiative that I believe has been sorely lacking. It's timing is critical as Macedonia faces the huge challenges it has and thousands of people world-wide are re-examining what the cause is.
I am also here to learn and listen - there is a wealth of information being provided here. I admit that I have not read every page so I probably should do more of that. However I am dismayed that I seem to really take it on the ass when I make a comment. I am new to this type of communication and I highly doubt that we were sitting in a pub in Melbourne drinking a Fosters or whatever anyone would be calling me a stooge.
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Originally posted by Mr Brandy View PostVangelovski - aside from what you say - what do you actual do? Are you officially affiliated with any associations?
As I've stated on Maknews and I'm certain you've read, I'm not currently a member of any organisation, but I work closely with and assist a number of organisations.Last edited by Vangelovski; 06-10-2010, 09:39 PM.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Prolet View PostMr Brandy, Its not Risto's style to call people names unless you really deserve it ofcourse.
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Originally posted by Mr Brandywhen I express an opinion you make me into a stooge and a Greek.
I did attend the conference in Toronto last week - not sure what that exactly makes me but I am sure you will come up with a great nameIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Mr Brandy View PostThanks Prolet - at the UMD conference I was discussing this forum with Steve K a fellow Australian and Risto the Great came up in conversation. He only had nice things to say about Risto and his family.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Sufficiently vague on the detail as usual. This kind of "blanket" bullshit doesn't actually do anything. There are various issues, terms, phrases and meanings that have been conflated here, which only adds confusion.
No where does this spiel specifically reject the current negotiation process. It doesn't.
Opening paragraph:
The Board of Directors of the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD), on the occasion of UMD's Second Annual Global Conference, conducted in Toronto, Ontario, Canada from June 3 – 6, 2010, affirming UMD's unwavering and consistent support for the Republic of Macedonia’s one and only constitutional and rightful name and UMD's rejection of attempts to change or impose any other name on the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian people hereby declares:
There is also this:
The E.C and the E.U have repeatedly rejected our identity and our right to exist over the last 15 or more years.
Here is UMD defending the E.U INSTITUTION.
WHEREAS, the setting of a commencement date for accession talks between the European Union and the Republic of Macedonia and the admission of the Republic of Macedonia to the European Union will improve the economic and political stability of the Republic of Macedonia and Southeast Europe, advance and heighten social development in both the Republic of Macedonia and all of Southeast Europe; and,WHEREAS, it is in the best interest of the European Union to continue its expansion by admitting those nations in Southeast Europe that, like the Republic of Macedonia, are committed to maintaining democratic societies, market-based economies, respect for the rule of law, and the protection of the civil and human rights of their citizens, to full membership in the European Union, as the admission of such nations, including the Republic of Macedonia, will promote further peace and stability in Europe; and,
In fact it talks admitting countries, "like the Republic of Macedonia..."
It talks about admission "including the Republic of Macedonia..."
What is missing here ... "by our constitutional name" !
In the opening paragraph UMD saying it supports our constitutional name, is not an indication that it in fact does.Last edited by Pelister; 06-10-2010, 09:50 PM.
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Originally posted by Vangelovski View PostWell Done Meto! It only took UMD six years to build up the courage and call on the Macedonian Government to "cease" the name negotiations.
And then you reaffirmed your commitment to the Interim Accord by legitimising it through a reprimand of Greece for its violation.
All rounded off by a plea for EU and NATO membership and a call for unity among the Diaspora.
Maybe over the course of the next six years, UMD will build up enough courage to call for an end (and reversal) of the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement.
Where does UMD specifically reject the current negotiation process?
Affirming that it rejects attempts to change our name ...etc, is not the same thing.
There is not a word in this spiel that specifically rejects the current negotiation process.
Secondly, it does not ask the Macedonian government to disengage from the current process either. Why is that?
Also, take a look at its defence and expansion of the E.U institution, even though it rejects our identity. Note also, in paragraph 8 UMD states admission of countries "like Macedonia" ... but not by our constitutional name. The context is troubling. Support for our constitutional name, is missing in this paragraphy and others relating to E.U admission.
It is sufficiently vague and conflated. Alot of brilliant spin, but I'm afraid more of the same.
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Originally posted by Mr Brandy View PostVangelovski - if UMD decision making is so trivial to you why do you concern yourself with their stance? You obviously believe that what they say carries a lot of weight. I am asking you this sincerely - not just stirring it up.
It was a comment on the extraordinarily long and painful process that finally led to UMD calling on the Macedonian Government to “cease” the negotiations (though I’m not sure how much praise we can give them because they did reaffirm their commitment to the Interim Accord).
I don’t know of one Macedonian diaspora organisation that either supports or ever supported the name negotiations, Interim Accord or the Framework Agreement other than UMD. Perhaps you may know of some? It took the UMD Board six long and painful years (and enormous public pressure) to finally brake ranks with the Macedonian Government come around on this ONE point.
As for what UMD says, I find it quite dangerous in that they promote a vision for Macedonia that is at odds with the vision that most activists have fought for over the past century.
If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Mr Brandy View PostThanks Prolet - at the UMD conference I was discussing this forum with Steve K a fellow Australian and Risto the Great came up in conversation. He only had nice things to say about Risto and his family.
He wasnt wrong what he said about Risto, what was his opinion about this forum?МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.
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Originally posted by Pelister View PostTom,
Where does UMD specifically reject the current negotiation process?
Affirming that it rejects attempts to change our name ...etc, is not the same thing.
There is not a word in this spiel that specifically rejects the current negotiation process.
Secondly, it does not ask the Macedonian government to disengage from the current process either. Why is that?
Also, take a look at its defence and expansion of the E.U institution, even though it rejects our identity. Note also, in paragraph 8 UMD states admission of countries "like Macedonia" ... but not by our constitutional name. The context is troubling. Support for our constitutional name, is missing in this paragraphy and others relating to E.U admission.
It is sufficiently vague and conflated. Alot of brilliant spin, but I'm afraid more of the same.
I was being somewhat cheeky but I don't think Meto read my entire post before he replied.
To their credit, UMD did call on the Macedonian Government to "cease negotiations", though I'm not quite sure of how they define the concept "cease".
On the other hand, they reaffirmed their commitment to the Interim Accord, basically negating their call to "cease" negotiations.
Otherwise I agree, a lot of smoke and mirrors and poorly worded ideas leaving them open to multiple interpretations - business as usual.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Pelister View PostSufficiently vague on the detail as usual. This kind of "blanket" bullshit doesn't actually do anything. There are various issues, terms, phrases and meanings that have been conflated here, which only adds confusion.
No where does this spiel specifically reject the current negotiation process. It doesn't.
Opening paragraph:
It has not specficially rejected the current negotiations process, simply "affirmed" that it is against attempts to change it. Huge difference.
There is also this:
The E.C and the E.U have repeatedly rejected our identity and our right to exist over the last 15 or more years.
Here is UMD defending the E.U INSTITUTION.
Nowwhere in these two paragraphs to they say the admission of the Republic of Macedonia, by its constitutional name ...
In fact it talks admitting countries, "like the Republic of Macedonia..."
It talks about admission "including the Republic of Macedonia..."
In the opening paragraph UMD saying it supports our constitutional name, is not an indication that it in fact does. Because it continues to support an E.U institution, and defend it, even though it rejects our identity and our right to exist.
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Originally posted by Prolet View PostSpolaj Ti Mr Brandy
He wasnt wrong what he said about Risto, what was his opinion about this forum?
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