United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Again you have misinterrupted our statements. Isn't a call for ceasing negotiations in actuality calling for an end to the Interim Accord? Absolutely yes.

Can you show us what Article 23 Point of the Interim Accord says? Why hasn't this been done?

No, its not - name negotiations are only a part of the Interim Accord. The Accord also includes other treasonous acts such as changing the Macedonian constitution according to the will of a foreign government and changing freely chosen national symbols, amongst other treasonous acts.

Re Article 23 - the Macedonian Government is filled with VASSAL politicians who think its more important to get a pat on the back from "big brother" than administer a free republic.

[Rogi]

Quite some time ago now, I recall studying a subject referred to as 'Whose Reality'. Is anyone familiar with this?

[blackcactus]

Quite some time ago now, I recall studying a subject referred to as 'Whose Reality'. Is anyone familiar with this?

A little, simply put everyone views a situation differently

You need to understand the persons context, background, and style

It's basically putting yourself 'accurately' in someone else's thinking, which to do at a high level is especially hard for most of us

Some innate empathetic ability is probably a requirement to be any good at this

[Risto the Great]

Again you have misinterrupted our statements. Isn't a call for ceasing negotiations in actuality calling for an end to the Interim Accord? Absolutely yes.

This logically suggests the UMD now advocates the return of the original flag (amongst other things). Can we see some strong actions from the UMD on this please?

[Risto the Great]

My goodness, it appears my picture link from a Macedonian newspaper at the time of this capitulation with a semi naked woman in stars and stripes holding a USA flag under the title of "Thank you USA" was edited out of this thread. Maybe I deleted it in a moment of political correctness. The picture is available in Aleksandrov's link at post #187.

Notwithstanding this, I quote Buktop:
"I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

And note he has not answered my question from around 1 week ago:

Thanks for the clarification. It was a convenient answer because it supports the argument that the USA is "awesome except for when it isn't" if I understood your text above. Given that USA was "terrible" under Clinton, what has the current/subsequent governments done to fix the mess that was created? In other words, surely by fixing nothing since Clinton, the USA is enjoying the fruits of its rape and carnage. Why would USA even need to inflict anything else on Macedonia given the position it has placed it in?

Which USA party is pro-Macedonian? Why?

Your mindset is based on a naive belief that USA is automatically good for Macedonia and that the EU is automatically good for Macedonia. Which is the UMD mindset. You have recently departed from UMD in the sense that you are still pro-negotiation and they are not (supposedly), but that will soon resolve itself. Naturally you will deny all of my assumptions about you.

How do you think Macedonia will recover? Let me put the Meto cap on and guess .... Join the organisations (EU, NATO etc.) then have our position of power within them ... something like that???


P.S. Just in case you forget, the USA did indeed do terrible things to Macedonia. You say it was Clinton. I say it was the USA. I think many normal people would agree with me. They might agree with you if you can prove the USA has done things to wind back the devastation they unleashed on Macedonia previously. Feel free to provide any evidence thereof.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Just for the record I presently am a UMD supporter which should be no secret by now.

Just for the record, because I recall Brandy arrived here as an apparently 'objective' observer, sort of like the UMD board member who pretended not to be a board member, he was so 'significant' that his name escapes me at the moment.

[Mr Brandy]

Just for the record, because I recall Brandy arrived here as an apparently 'objective' observer, sort of like the UMD board member who pretended not to be a board member, he was so 'significant' that his name escapes me at the moment.

SoM - there is more to that post I wrote on Maknews. In the next line I clearly state that I am also a supporter of the United Macedonians, Detsa Begalci, MHRMI, the Church's etc.

Not exactly sure why you are attacking me here. I have been following your earlier advice and diligently reading posts on this forum and others to try and become better informed on the issues.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Brandy, stop creating a victim's role for yourself because nobody is attacking you. We have had a number of individuals that apparently just heard of UMD the day before they signed up here yet were prepared to defend them tooth and nail. I don't want you to fall in the same catergory, so now, people know your sentiment when they discuss this issue with you. There's nothing wrong with highlighting someone's position, is there?

[Risto the Great]

I am wondering out loud if the UMD has thought through their apparent change of policy.
They have rejected the interim accord (not officially ... but on this forum). They have also demanded an end to negotiations.

So where are the teeth UMD? Surely it is time to assert your (new) policies.

Go for it, you might get some more members.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Risto - thanks for your post. We have thought about our policies very thoroughly.

Please see latest UMD announcement: http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=124800

[Vangelovski]

Risto - thanks for your post. We have thought about our policies very thoroughly.

Please see latest UMD announcement: http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=124800

Meto,

I don't get it?

All you have done is say that you don't believe there will be a 'solution'. In fact, you said that Greece does not want a solution, implying, as you have previously, that Macedonia does. Were is the "thouroughly" thought out policy?

Then having claimed that you have found new "partners" through some "all" Macedonian conference (did you try to paint it as if you have the support of the entire Macedonian nation?), the article had to bring the situation back to reality to remind you that your "partners" expect a "solution"...

По завршувањето на семакедонската конференција во Торонто, Македонија доби нови лобисти меѓу канадските пратеници и премиерот, кои изразиле силна поддршка за прием на Македонија во НАТО и ЕУ но, и тие сугерирале дека побрзо треба да се најде решение за спорот со Грција.

[Buktop]

As promised

Thanks for the clarification. It was a convenient answer because it supports the argument that the USA is "awesome except for when it isn't" if I understood your text above.

Not true, USA has it's benefits and it's negatives, I have never once said that USA was entirely beneficial for Macedonia, nor have I denied the wrongs committed by the US in respect for Macedonia. In my perspective, there are certain times when the benefits of US support can outweigh the cons, this we can delve further into if we have the chance for an in depth conversation.

Given that USA was "terrible" under Clinton, what has the current/subsequent governments done to fix the mess that was created? In other words, surely by fixing nothing since Clinton, the USA is enjoying the fruits of its rape and carnage. Why would USA even need to inflict anything else on Macedonia given the position it has placed it in?

Since Clinton, the Bush administration has recognized the constitutional Macedonian name and has signed a few strategic alliance treaties that have benefited Macedonia,

found here,

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/1296/53/ - strategic treaty

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/05/ne...ce_ed3__0.html - this article highlights issues that have been brought up previously, in particular the issue of recognition in the face of the ongoing referendum regarding redrawing of district borders in Macedonia solidifying the Ohrid agreement's stipulations, regardless of US recognition, the blame must be placed on Macedonians for not voting in this referendum (which, I feel a bit more personally about, especially when I was there during the protest of Struzani fire bombing Buckovski)

Which USA party is pro-Macedonian? Why?

none, the party that has presented more benefit than the other is the Republican party, but I cannot classify any party as being pro-Macedonian.

Your mindset is based on a naive belief that USA is automatically good for Macedonia and that the EU is automatically good for Macedonia. Which is the UMD mindset. You have recently departed from UMD in the sense that you are still pro-negotiation and they are not (supposedly), but that will soon resolve itself. Naturally you will deny all of my assumptions about you.

Completely wrong. I have recently departed from my belief that the EU, currently, could be beneficial for Macedonia, while I do believe the US has "certain" beneficial aspects relating to Macedonia, I do not for one second consider them Macedonia's friend, nor do I consider them dedicated to supporting Macedonia. If Macedonia can project the illusion that the US cares about it, then countries like Greece will spend the time to rethink their priorities (which is what they have been doing under the new administration). Since 2008, when the US voiced its protest of the Veto, Macedonian momentum in the name dispute has increased, granted a few erroneous comments by Reeker, but these are Obama policy appeasing Greek lobbies, and mean very little in the grand scheme of the world.

How do you think Macedonia will recover? Let me put the Meto cap on and guess .... Join the organisations (EU, NATO etc.) then have our position of power within them ... something like that???

If you had paid attention to my other comments, particularly concerning energy reliance on Greece, as well as export concentration of Macedonian companies through the port of Solun, you would realize that I don't put all my eggs in the EU/NATO basket (while I did see some benefit). I have highlighted countless times various different approaches to reducing reliance and in turn, political relevance on Greece.

P.S. Just in case you forget, the USA did indeed do terrible things to Macedonia. You say it was Clinton. I say it was the USA. I think many normal people would agree with me. They might agree with you if you can prove the USA has done things to wind back the devastation they unleashed on Macedonia previously. Feel free to provide any evidence thereof.

And may I say, that 90% of the US don't even know where Macedonia is, nor care that they are arguing with Greece right now. The US is a country of about 350 million, and while there are many who do know about us and the situation, they really don't give a shit.

The thing you need to focus on is who controls the lobby of each party during each election. The US is not inherently bad, but it tends to succumb to less than advantageous sway of the lobbies. If you have not seen the tape I posted about the Albanian lobby raising 30 million dollars for Democratic elect John Kerry's campaign, you might want to take a look. Not only are Albanians continually Democrat leaning, but coupled with the Greek lobby, you get the feeling that Democrats wouldn't have a very friendly perspective on the Macedonian issue.

Under the Bush administration, Macedonia has experienced the most benefit of the US, not saying that it is extremely significant, nor am I saying that the entire US supported us, but it did send a message to those who were hesitant about recognition, and those who were hesitant about acknowledgment.

[julie]

Buktop
I have recently departed from my belief that the EU, currently, could be beneficial for Macedonia, while I do believe the US has "certain" beneficial aspects relating to Macedonia, I do not for one second consider them Macedonia's friend, nor do I consider them dedicated to supporting Macedonia

better late than never, am pleased that you can see that it would not be in Macedonia's best interests to enter the EU. I do find the following slightly contradictory batko, could you explain what you mean?
Under the Bush administration, Macedonia has experienced the most benefit of the US, not saying that it is extremely significant, nor am I saying that the entire US supported us, but it did send a message to those who were hesitant about recognition, and those who were hesitant about acknowledgment.

was it not under Bush administration the Ohrid Agreement was imposed at that time?

cheers

[Buktop]

I have recently departed from my belief that the EU, currently, could be beneficial for Macedonia, while I do believe the US has "certain" beneficial aspects relating to Macedonia, I do not for one second consider them Macedonia's friend, nor do I consider them dedicated to supporting Macedonia

better late than never, am pleased that you can see that it would not be in Macedonia's best interests to enter the EU. I do find the following slightly contradictory batko, could you explain what you mean?

I changed my stance on EU several weeks ago

Under the Bush administration, Macedonia has experienced the most benefit of the US, not saying that it is extremely significant, nor am I saying that the entire US supported us, but it did send a message to those who were hesitant about recognition, and those who were hesitant about acknowledgment.

was it not under Bush administration the Ohrid Agreement was imposed at that time?

cheers

As I specified in my post, the Ohrid accord was a product of the Clinton administration, that had already been enacted at the time of the commencement of the Bush administration. Believe me when I say I am not making excuses for anyone, but I know for a fact that Clinton policy procedures were enacted during his administration that would eventually take place under a time which was directed by the Bush administration. Presidential policy/decisions do not come into effect immediately after approval, it takes weeks, even months after the approval. Ambassadors/representatives do not change policy unless specifically altered by central administration.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Videos from the first day of the UMD Global Conference:

Opening Remarks by UMD President:

YouTube - UMD President UMD GC2010 Opening Remarks and Introduction of Macedonian Ambassador to Canada

Opening Remarks by Macedonian Ambassador to Canada:

YouTube - Macedonian Ambassador to Canada, Ljuben Tevdovski Remarks at UMD GC2010

Entire Opening Plenary Speech of Thomas S. Caldwell and thought-provoking Questions and Answers Session:

Part 1 - YouTube - Thomas S. Caldwell Keynotes United Macedonian Diaspora Global Conference - Part 1
Part 2 - YouTube - Thomas S. Caldwell Keynotes United Macedonian Diaspora Global Conference - Part 2
Part 3 - YouTube - Thomas S. Caldwell Keynotes United Macedonian Diaspora Global Conference - Part 3
Q&A Part 1 - YouTube - Q&A Following Thomas Caldwell Keynote at UMD GC2010 - Part 1
Q&A Part 2 - YouTube - Q&A Following Thomas Caldwell Keynote at UMD GC2010 - Part 2
Q&A Part 3 - YouTube - Q&A Following Thomas Caldwell Keynote at UMD GC2010 - Part 3