Originally posted by julie
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United Macedonia Diaspora
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If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View PostJulie - can you elaborate when UMD supported the MPO?In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Currency Trader View PostI asked you three simple questions, and you decided to dodge all three of them.
I'll repeat them again:
1. My objectivity and rationale decided to support AMHRC campaign.
Do you have a problem with that? (yes or no)
2. Do you think that an organisation/government/dog club/investment group (regardless of mission) will always do/say the right thing and fulfill every member or non-member wishes? (yes or no)
3. Do think its possible for individuals to objectively judge each separate action that an organisation does? (yes or no)
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Yes, it has all been clear with me as to why UMD did not officially support the campaign - I got my answers and that's what matters for me.
Its irrelevant whether someone agrees with me or not when I question certain arguments in this thread. I'm not dependent on others to agree with me, are you?
Aren't you advocating constructive discussions where different set of opinions are welcomed, or are you advocating some totalitarian way of style where everyone must have the same opinion?
Again, if you wish to take a constructive debate of the difference between an "advocate" and someone who uses "objectivity", let me know.
Regards,
CT
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I advocate for everything that is in the best interests of Macedonia and the Macedonian people. The UMD have shown themselves to be against such views time and again. I am not interested in self-glorified press statements. I couldn't give a shit if Meto sent you a few 'feel-good' PM's to have another sheep convinced that all has 'been cleared'. You can express whatever view you like, but your current one is the wrong one, and you will be reminded of this fact each time somebody posts here. Again, has it clicked in your head why everybody is saying and thinking the opposite to yourself?
By the way, how did Meto convince you that all has 'been cleared'?In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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CT wrote:
2. Do you think that an organisation/government/dog club/investment group (regardless of mission) will always do/say the right thing and fulfill every member or non-member wishes? (yes or no)
Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostYes, except where there is a systematic history of actions that go against a normal Macedonian's belief system. Which applies in this case.
"Normal" Macedonian's belief system?
Would you care to expand on what constitutes a "normal Macedonian belief system"?
History is filled with divisions among Macedonians. Be it in Rep. of Macedonia or diaspora Macedonians. If there were something as "normal", then divisions would hardly exist. Or do you have something else in-mind?
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Originally posted by Vangelovski View PostHow about we start with the cause as defined by the MTO?
Besides being an internet webforum, what kind of work does MTO do in comparison to other Macedonian diaspora organisations, and what influence does MTO have? Perhaps this can be discussed in another thread.
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Originally posted by Currency Trader View PostCT wrote:
I would disagree - Governments, organisations (regardless of their mission) will most likely never fulfill every member and non-members wishes, or do what they say. A case in point is the Macedonian government and past governments.
"Normal" Macedonian's belief system?
Would you care to expand on what constitutes a "normal Macedonian belief system"?
History is filled with divisions among Macedonians. Be it in Rep. of Macedonia or diaspora Macedonians. If there were something as "normal", then divisions would hardly exist. Or do you have something else in-mind?-
Call me crazy but "normal" Macedonians have not advocated a name change publicly then pretend they never said it.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by Currency Trader View PostIf the assumption is that UMD has less of a following in Australia, then there could be more risk if they listed other organisations.
Thanks for agreeing that they did indeed take the path of less risk.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by Currency Trader View PostIs this the UMD worldwide membership. If so, how accurate is this number and how many sources can confirm this?Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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While I'm on, METO can you clarify how many members the UMD has as a total, please do not include Facebook and non member affiliates etc.
If you can be more specific and without answering a question with a question please breakdown the membership stats via region or country.
I hope you can be mature about this and provide actual stats and not some wet dream
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Originally posted by Currency Trader View PostYes, go ahead.
Besides being an internet webforum, what kind of work does MTO do in comparison to other Macedonian diaspora organisations, and what influence does MTO have? Perhaps this can be discussed in another thread.
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If you paid any attention, you'll notice that a number of democratically elected leaders of some of the largest Australian Macedonian organisations are regular posters on MTO and their views (along with those of the communities they represent) directly contradict Meto's UMD, as does the MTO consolidated definition of the cause.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Currency Trader View PostIs this the UMD worldwide membership. If so, how accurate is this number and how many sources can confirm this?If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostOh please, like I need to 'dodge' your questions, your rationale to support the AMHRC and your acceptance that all has 'been cleared' from the UMD's side doesn't correlate, but then again, why should it, all of you UMD apologists are fumbling and contradicting characters.
And you keep failing to even answer the first question with a simple yes or no - Do you have a problem that I support AMHRC campaign?
Negative - there are no contradictions as you claim. If so, I'd like you to provide factual back-up, can you do that? - The real issue here is that your world doesn't accept the fact that people can judge each action taken by an organisation separately. That means organisations are seldom perfect regardless of what they do. Mistakes and differences of opinion will most likely always be there.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostRegarding your second question, what's your point?
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostWhy is it that every UMD apologist like yourself, Buktop and the small handful of morons that have visited the MTO seem to know exactly why and how the UMD operate?
You seem to suggest that I know exactly why and how the UMD operate. Could you provide some example or factual back-up for your claim?
Secondly, is your role as admin to slander people who come to MTO?
In this thread, you are have taken this role exclusively. No other individual has taken this road.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostYour third question is irrelevant, because that should be the norm for every situation, and not just when you see it fit.
You seem to be stuck in a world where individuals cannot criticize the very same organisation that is also doing good things. If they do, you call them "contradicting characters", or "UMD apologists".
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostYou can express whatever view you like, but your current one is the wrong one, and you will be reminded of this fact each time somebody posts here.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostAgain, has it clicked in your head why everybody is saying and thinking the opposite to yourself?
Are you looking to advocate constructive discussions where different set of opinions are welcomed, or are you advocating some totalitarian way of style where everyone must have the same opinion?
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostBy the way, how did Meto convince you that all has 'been cleared'?
SoM said:
I couldn't give a shit if Meto sent you a few 'feel-good' PM's to have another sheep convinced that all has 'been cleared'
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Lastly,
Do you mind telling me what you do for living, and what education level you hold? If you don't mind of course.
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Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostAre you absolutely comfortable making the comparison between a government and UMD? Is everything alright back home mate?
Call me crazy but "normal" Macedonians have not advocated a name change publicly then pretend they never said it.
Ok, but what is the "normal Macedonian belief system"? I have never heard of this system before. You talked about this, can you expand. Besides whatever someone has advocated or not.
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