Nikola Gruevski

[Big Bad Sven]

GRUEVSKI has offered Rep of Macedonia (Skopje) for NATO in 2008 and is suing Greece in order to enforce the IA so that RoM can enter NATO and start EU entry negotiations as FYROM. MFA has offered a New Name to be enforceable only upon final entry into EU. It is Greece that is stopping him from doing this as it wants much more than that and it has political forces inside Macedonia who are willing to do its bidding.



As for me, I think the name for international use is sold and the UN (thus international) "ID CARD" will look as follows:

Country name long form: Republic of X Macedonia (or Republic of X)

Short form name: Republic of X Macedonia or (X Macedonia or X)

Nationality: Citizen of Republic of X Macedonia (or Republic of X)

Language: Macedonian (?)

In my estimation, the language designation is where the real battle lines are right at the moment and the nationality is only half-hearted resistance as it will logically follow that it will be derived out of the name of whatever the "Rep. of X" will be called for most western world general usage, and the Greeks will make sure that is the case. Watch for signals of rupture on that front given by the Greek heralds in RoM - Frchkovski and Co.

----------------

Only one solution valid for Macedonians - END the name negotiations and declare the "Interim Accord" null and void and ask to be admitted into the UN as Macedonia or decline membership if refused!

Ironic that it was Grease that "saved" us in 2008 when Vojvoda Gruevski was going to sign our culture and history away!

I agree with you that the real battle is the language and ethnic designation. Im betting that if the worse case scenario happens, which will most likely happen because of our dickless "leaders", we will be embarrased with "Slavic-Macedonia". Im predicting that will be our identifier (more like deathblow) that Grease, FYROM government, and the "international community" will agree on.

[Pelister]

Only one solution valid for Macedonians - END the name negotiations and declare the "Interim Accord" null and void and ask to be admitted into the UN as Macedonia or decline membership if refused!

That is the only way to save the country, and our identity. I'm amazed by two things, one, that in this day and age any institution can entirely reject out of hand the most basic form of self expression and self identification, and two, that Macedonian politicians have accepted that kind of determination, by their action to 'negotiate'. Why not say if you can't respect our natural rights, we'll go elsewhere. One thing this whole train wreck has done is bring out the political whores who find the heightened politics, irresistable.

[Soldier of Macedon]

GRUEVSKI has offered Rep of Macedonia (Skopje) for NATO in 2008........

Ironic that it was Grease that "saved" us in 2008 when Vojvoda Gruevski was going to sign our culture and history away!

Indigen/BBS,

Do you have any articles or reports from Bucharest 2008 where Gruevski indicates his preparedness to sellout?

[Vangelovski]

Indigen/BBS,

Do you have any articles or reports from Bucharest 2008 where Gruevski indicates his preparedness to sellout?

SoM,

There were numerous reports at the time that Gruevski had called Parliament to stand by in order to rubber stamp a new name, should it be successful in gaining Macedonian membership in NATO. I'll go through my files and see if I an find some of them.

[Vangelovski]

Here is where MANU announced that "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" is acceptable in that it would not require a change of the Macedonian constitution and would "only" be used for international use:

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?itemID=3AF9F11F7C4E2240B723084E6779DB64&arc=1

There is no way such an announcment would be made without official government sanction. I have other articles, I will post them as I find them.

[blackcactus]

Indigen/BBS,

Do you have any articles or reports from Bucharest 2008 where Gruevski indicates his preparedness to sellout?

Proof is required to "know" that he was preparing to sell out before condemning a man who has so far done more than any leader in the last 20 years

Understanding Gruevski's political strategy (after all he is a politician) is key to 'knowing' his likely hood of ultimately doing his best for Macedonia or selling out

Any 'fact' must be put into context, as "fact's" can be manipulated much like "statistics"

I don't want to condemn a potentially good man without lots of contextual evidence

[Vangelovski]

Here's some more disasterous views from DPMNE:

http://dnevnik.com.mk/?itemID=51EAAE0F132F104CA74A2A1604767963&arc=1

Essentially it states that DPMNE is supportive of the name proposal, its pushing the BS view that its "only" changing the "temporary reference" and that DPMNE will take it to a referendum.

[Vangelovski]

Would be nice, proof is required to "know" that he was preparing to sell out before condemning a man who has so far done more than any leader in the last 20 years

Understanding Gruevski's political strategy (after all he is a politician) is key to 'knowing' his likely hood of ultimately doing his best for Macedonia or selling out

Any 'fact' must be put into context, as "fact's" can be manipulated much like "statistics"

I don't want to condemn a potentially good man without lots of contextual evidence

It would be good if you read the entire thread and other threads pertaining to this question. Gruevski has already accepted the Inteirm Accord and Framework Agreement and has continued their implementation and has continued to sell them to us as "victories" rather than treasonous capitulation. You would have to completly ignore the FACT that he has supported and implemented the two most disasterous mechanisms forced onto Macedonia in order to destroy both its identity and sovereignty.

If you take his entire political views and career into CONTEXT, you will see he's not the "great man" that everyone portrays him to be. Yes, he is "slightly" better than previous prime ministers in some of his economic policies, but when you're competing with communists of the ilk we have had, it would be idiotically impossible not to be an improvement. In CONTEXT, that does not say much for him.

[Vangelovski]

Here's one for the Ivanov fans:

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=4E2E39FF179ED74B83AEE5284A6317B8

Here it is reported that Ivanov would accept "Northern Macedonia".

[Pelister]

I think there is substantial evidence that they both accept compromised name.

What worries me is that even though the Macedonian people are against a name change, they continue to negotiate and they continue to suggest name changes (which is why UMD thought it was o.k to do it).

Its the Macedonian people that are being skrewed over by Gruevski and Co. right now. Imagine those idiots putting the question of our political existence to a referendum - as though the referundum in 1991 wasn't good enough.

Ignore a previous referendum
Ignore the objections of the Macedonian people
Refuse to consult them
Continue without a clear mandate
Propose name changes

Does anyone have any background information about Gruevski? I mean, how does an actor/boxer, get catapulted to be the leader of the country? What if he was planted there, by the Greeks? Has that possibility ever occured to anyone, because he has single handedly manage to shit all over the wishes and grievances of the Macedonian people. If he is the 'best' we've got, we don't have much.

[Risto the Great]

Here's one for the Ivanov fans:

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=4E2E39FF179ED74B83AEE5284A6317B8

Here it is reported that Ivanov would accept "Northern Macedonia".

A Google translation from the above link:


The proposal Republic of Northern Macedonia to be for international use, with a guarantee of our name, our national identity, language and our national distinctiveness. This is a reasonable compromise in which the newly elected president of Macedonia, Ivanov, and acting SDSM leader Zoran Zaev coordinated their positions on resolving the name issue. Both, thus, confirmed that following an agreement between Macedonia and Greece name issue would be put on referendum.

[blackcactus]

http://dnevnik.com.mk/?itemID=51EAAE...04767963&arc=1

Quoted from that link (In English)

"According to sources from the participants at the last meeting, the President (Branko Crvenkovski), and SDSM, DUI and DPA are against a referendum"


This is a clue as to the political atmosphere at the time

Gruevski's motive in announcing he would rather a referendum be held rather than leaving it up to any government to decide (He may or may not actually want this himself), can only be judged in the context of events leading up to such a statement

[Bill77]

Here's one for the Ivanov fans:

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=4E2E39FF179ED74B83AEE5284A6317B8

Here it is reported that Ivanov would accept "Northern Macedonia".

Well we can do this all day play tit for tat posting what is reported that he said. I am not sure about the credibility of UTRINSKI vesnik or if the reporter has some sort of an agenda.

But this would be more reliable since it came direct from his mouth on the Australian – Macedonian Radio (Ilinden)

VMRO-DPMNE candidate, professor Gjorgje Ivanov disagrees with Frckovski. In an interview for Australian – Macedonian Radio (Ilinden), he stated:
- Nimetz’s last proposal “North Macedonia”, cleverly excluding the Macedonian nation and language is by far the worst proposal that’s not worth reviewing. With this proposal once again it was shown that the so called name negotiations have different goal and background. The name negotiations are only a mask of Greece’s true aim. – stated Ivanov in his interview.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/5695/2/

I can find many more where Ivanov and Gruevski are totally against any name change. And i am sure you will find the opposite. So who do we believe? which report do we take serious? Just remember there are many media outlets that are run or influenced by our enemies so don't believe everything you read.


I did not hear Ivanov's comments on this Aus radio station. But i am sure someone down under would have.

[Bill77]

Who can remember these actions by Ivanov directed at the Greek Ambassador Tassos Trikunis during a speech at the Konrad Adenauer Foundation about 12 months ago?

Macedonia's president on the other hand offered solution to the Greek Ambassador in solving the name dispute. "We are 39% of the total Macedonian area, but we are 100% Macedonia, while you are 5%. Now, who has the right to Macedonia?" asked Ivanov

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/8238/1/

Does this sound like a traitor or a patriot?
Has any other politician stood up like this in recent history?

Come on guys, nemoj da se zajebavate.

[Vangelovski]

Bill77,

You have misunderstood your own quote. What Ivanov said is perfectly in line with what was reported in Utrinski. He was not against the name proposed, but rather upset that it did not include the language and identity as part of the package. As per what was reported in Utrinski, Ivanov would accept "Northern Macedonia", if the proposal "guaranteed" the language and identity.