There is no doubt about it. Gruevski is meddling with our identity.
Nikola Gruevski
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Your right Tom.
He can't hide the fact that he is interferring with our historical and political identity.
He can convince people that he is not for a name change, he can convince them that the 'negotiations' are out of his hands, but he made his intentions very clear recently. I think that Gruevski has been lying to the Macedonian people - I think he is a reckless individual and a traitor to all Macedonians. He may well be the best pick out of a very bad bunch but that isn't saying much.
We needs a grass roots movement to stop the negotiations, and the Macedonian people should be made aware that we have not in fact been blocked at the United Nations.
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Originally posted by Vangelovski View PostWhat with this relativism? If something does not measure up, it simply does not measure up - regardless of place, time or circumstance.
He may well be the best pick out of a very bad bunch but that isn't saying much.
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There is no doubt about it. Gruevski is meddling with our identity.
Dont be so short sighted, the problem is the people and their slave, defeatist mentality.Makedonija vo Srce
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Originally posted by Volk View PostGreuvski is held hostage not by greece but by the majority of Macedonians that want entry to NATO and EU.
How about finally accepting the fact that this guy is negotiating our identity with Greece?
Terminating talks would mean an end to this 'dream' to the majority of people which would probably mean the fall of this government and the rise of one which would accept ANY terms
Instead, he walks around international forums with 'FYR Macedonia' stickers on his shirt or jacket. How utterly disgraceful and pitiful.
Dont be so short sighted, the problem is the people and their slave, defeatist mentality.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostLol, that's a new one.
How about finally accepting the fact that this guy is negotiating our identity with Greece?
I would rather see this government fall than see another capitulation. The Macedonian identity is more important than Gruevski's career - which he should be putting out on a limb to defend the honour and integrity of his nation.
Instead, he walks around international forums with 'FYR Macedonia' stickers on his shirt or jacket. How utterly disgraceful and pitiful.
That is certainly a problem. How about the cowardice of our spineless leaders, do you think it would make a difference if Gruevski actually grew a pair?Last edited by Vangelovski; 02-14-2011, 07:02 PM.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostLol, that's a new one.
How about finally accepting the fact that this guy is negotiating our identity with Greece?
I would rather see this government fall than see another capitulation. The Macedonian identity is more important than Gruevski's career - which he should be putting out on a limb to defend the honour and integrity of his nation.
Instead, he walks around international forums with 'FYR Macedonia' stickers on his shirt or jacket. How utterly disgraceful and pitiful.
That is certainly a problem. How about the cowardice of our spineless leaders, do you think it would make a difference if Gruevski actually grew a pair?
SOM, yes Macedonia is in the 'negotiations' and any self respecting person would be against this. However you chose to ignore my point for the real reason we are still in these talks.
If a government that has refused to change the name is replaced with one that has openly announced it would do so "bend backward to please greece" (not sure what kind of sick sexual position they are thinking of)
guess what would happen?? a name change. Its up to the people.
Walking around with a FYR Macedonia tag makes me as sick as anyone and I cannot understand the mentality behind that.
Unfortunately it seems Gruevksi has the 'biggest pair' from all of our previous politicians, most of which completely robbed the country and did not see fit to defend its name, flag, constitution and territory. Thats the sad truth.
Gruevski should be addressing the slave mentalityMakedonija vo Srce
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Volk, Gruevski needs to address his own slave mentality before he can do anything further. How are the blind going to lead the blind?
Those statues have no substance other than a pathetic attempt to convince the people of DPMNE's "patriotic" credentials. Further, Gruevski is not better than previous PM's. He has not seen it fit to defend Macedonia's sovereignty or the rights of Macedonians either. In fact, he has only legitimised the Interim Accord even more than any previous Macedonian politician by asking the ICJ to ENFORCE it.
I previously stated that the only positive policy that Gruevski has implemented, that I can think of, the 10% flat tax rate and asked if you can provide me with any other concrete examples - I'm still waiting.Last edited by Vangelovski; 02-14-2011, 08:02 PM.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Volk View PostUnfortunately it seems Gruevksi has the 'biggest pair' from all of our previous politicians, most of which completely robbed the country and did not see fit to defend its name, flag, constitution and territory. Thats the sad truth.
Gruevski has not defended the name, flag and constitution in any meaningful way.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by Vangelovski View PostVolk, Gruevski needs to address his own slave mentality before he can do anything further.
Those statues have no substance other than a pathetic attempt to convince the people of DPMNE's "patriotic" credentials. Further, Gruevski is not better than previous PM's. He has not seen it fit to defend Macedonia's sovereignty or the rights of Macedonians either. In fact, he has only legitimised the Interim Accord even more than any previous Macedonian politician by asking the ICJ to ENFORCE it.
I previously stated that the only positive policy that Gruevski has implemented, that I can think of, the 10% flat tax rate and asked if you can provide me with any other concrete examples - I'm still waiting.
If he is no better than previous PMs perhaps you are not acquainted with the PMs of the past:
Branko Crvenkovski - Robbed the country, runs the mafia and is backed by greece. Openly supports a name change.
Ljubco Georgievski - Bulgar version of Crvenkovski, open calls Macedonians Bulgarians, robbed the country and orchestrated 2001 to try to join Macedonia with his mother bulgaria.
Vlado Buckovski - puppet of Crvenkovski, masterminded the territorial divide of Macedonia by ethnic lines and handed over Struga to the albanians which nearly got him killed by the people.
The interim accord cannot be enforced by ICJ and you are well aware of this, blatant example of a misleading statement on your behalf.
Winning the ICJ case does not provide Macedonia with an avenue to admittance into NATO and EU as FYROM, it only proves that greece broke the accord, which opens all sort of opportunities for Macedonia like reinstating the original flag and negating FYROM in general.Makedonija vo Srce
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Volk,
Provide examples of positive policies that Gruevski has implemented if you have any.
Statues of national heroes are only of value if the ideals they struggled for are taught and practised alongside them - in Gruevski's case they are cheap political point scoring. Putting up a statue of Delcev and then negotiating the name and accpeting the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement shows that there is no substance in those statues and that it is a cheap political trick for DPMNE footsoldiers like yourself.
Your understanding of the ICJ process and what Macedonia is asking for (read Macedonia's application to institue proceedings http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index....&code=aci&p3=0) is frankly wrong. This has been explained to you, with the relevant sections quoted, time and again. Yet you either fail to understand it or refuse to believe that your beloved Gruevski could do something of the sort. This is the sort of illogical obsessive defence of Gruevski that betrays your own slave mentality.
In particular, you may want to read Section IV, Paragraph 23 (ii) of Macedonia's application to the ICJ:
The applicant requests the court:
to order that the Respondent immediately take all necessary steps to comply with its obligations under Article 11, paragraph 1, of the Interim Accord, and to cease and desist from objecting in any way, whether directly or indirectly, to the Applicant’s membership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and/or of any other “ international, multilateral and regional organizations and institutions ” of which the Respondent is a member, in circumstances where the Applicant is to be referred to in such organizations or institutions by the designation provided for in paragraph 2 of United Nations Security Council resolution 817 (1993).Last edited by Vangelovski; 02-14-2011, 08:37 PM.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Volk, I think it's far too early to judge the honesty of Gruevski, somehow that all manage to accumulate great wealth that is only exposed after they leave office...what works in gruevski's favour is that his opposition has already been exposed and gruevski is looked at as the lesser evil, meanwhile he has more time in office to set himself up for the future...
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Tom,
Providing me with a link to a 176 page document proves absolutely nothing. And my understanding of the power the ICJ has is very simple: They have no power to implement any ruling, thus they cannot ENFORCE the interim accord. Then one needs to ask the question, why do it? Ask yourself that question because you are the one not understanding this.
Phoenix, I agree with you.Makedonija vo Srce
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Originally posted by Volk View PostTom,
Providing me with a link to a 176 page document proves absolutely nothing. And my understanding of the power the ICJ has is very simple: They have no power to implement any ruling, thus they cannot ENFORCE the interim accord. Then one needs to ask the question, why do it? Ask yourself that question because you are the one not understanding this.
Phoenix, I agree with you.Last edited by Vangelovski; 02-14-2011, 08:42 PM.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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