Nikola Gruevski

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Even though many don't want to hear it (something about grown adults not being able to accept personal responsibility), the blame ultimately lays with the Macedonian people. For the most part, they have elected their own governments. At the end of the day, sovereignty lies with the body of citizens, not an elected government, and it is both the right and the responsibility of the people to enact change when the government strays.

A, few of us understand the real problem - a few

Unfortunately, the citizens of Macedonia have little or zero interest (politics) and I don't see that changing anytime soon

[lavce pelagonski]

George, don't you think after 20 wasted years the citizens are more to blame for allowing this to continue? .. the truth hurts!



NOTE

He's 100% correct we don't have a monopoly on the name like Athens is seeking - total control ..

- Macedonia, Arkansas
- Macedonia, Ohio

Or
Macedon, Victoria

This speech is great but he just admitted that it is ok that we changed our flag, that is apart of us our identity and it was taken away from us.

[Vangelovski]

What many don't understand, or don't want to understand, is that ultimately, it is up to the Macedonian people on whether Macedonia becomes a free state ruled by a free people or it continues to spiral into oppression. The country will only be as good or bad as the people living there make it. But some find it much easier to ignore that basic fact and blame others and other countries. And when the simple reality is pointed out to them, the automatic reaction is to tell the messanger to "stop spitting" or "your approach/delivery is all wrong". What is wrong is that many Macedonians do not want to accept personal responsibility and fulfill their obligations to each other and their country. They want far away people who have no interest in their prosperity to fix their problems.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

This speech is great but he just admitted that it is ok that we changed our flag, that is apart of us our identity and it was taken away from us.

Fine, how did the citizens react? Macedonians, would much rather have a gold medal "As Seen on TV". FYI, the flag was NOT taken away .. sold.

[Pelister]

A timely reminder Volk. But we can see Gruevski's true intentions and have been able to for years now. Acceptance and implementation of the IA to the point where he is too afraid to name a statue and place all 16 rays on the Sonce surrounding that statue.

I am concerned about the duality between his rhetoric, and his actions. I believe also, that Gruevski has been decieving the Macedonian people into believing we are blocked from the U.N, up to now, by remaining silent on the issue of our almost certain admission to the United Nations, if we pursued it. At the moment just about everything he is actually doing is there to either justify negotiating our identity, or convince Macedonian people of the need to.

[George S.]

I think it's a blatant disregard for macedonian rights.We are like vassals to be used & exploited at will.The interim accord wasn't even mentioned he should pull out & declare it null & void.He should also stop negotiating on our name.If he doesn't do these things it will be ripe for the people to start by civil disobedience.Maybe then he will listen & do something in the interest of all macedonians.

[Pelister]

I think it's a blatant disregard for macedonian rights.We are like vassals to be used & exploited at will.The interim accord wasn't even mentioned he should pull out & declare it null & void.He should also stop negotiating on our name.If he doesn't do these things it will be ripe for the people to start by civil disobedience.Maybe then he will listen & do something in the interest of all macedonians.

I would prefer it if he simply refered to the country as 'Macedonia' and not the 'Republic of Macedonia', but the message seemed pretty strong, except that it lacked any indication of future policy directions.

[United MKD]

This is what Meto and UMD have to say:

Dear Friend:


This week has been quite busy at the 66th UN General Assembly. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been in the forefront, with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas submitting an application for membership to the United Nations, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu strongly opposing it, offering instead to resume peace talks.


President Obama also voiced strong opposition to a unilateral declaration of independence by Palestine. Interestingly, Albania's Prime Minister Sali Berisha stated the same. How come they didn't say this when Kosovo declared independence? Meanwhile, the Greek Foreign Minister came out in support of Palestine, yet does not recognize Kosovo as an independent state.


For Macedonians, however, the key speech was from Prime Minister Gruevski, who declared: "We are Macedonians, we speak Macedonian, and our country's name is the Republic of Macedonia." It was the strongest message any Macedonian leader has delivered before the United Nations.


Prime Minister Gruevski's stronger stance on the name issue and human rights of Macedonians has been unprecedented. On July 17, 2008, the Greek Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis wrote a letter to Prime Minister Gruevski in which he stated: "There is no 'Macedonian' minority in Greece. There never has been." On July 24, 2008, Prime Minister Gruevski responded by bringing Greece's discriminatory policies against its Macedonian minority before the UN, including the property rights issue for the child refugees of the Greek Civil War, urging the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon to personally engage himself in the matter. This is the first time a modern Macedonian leader has publicly brought up these issues and called for a resolution.


In September 2008, the UN Secretary General responded by sending his Independent Expert on Minority Issues, Gay McDougall, on a fact-finding mission to Greece. Her conclusion: "The independent expert urges the Government of Greece to withdraw from the dispute over whether there is a Macedonian or a Turkish minority in Greece and focus on protecting the rights to self-identification, freedom of expression and freedom of association of those communities."


Since Prime Minister Gruevski came to office, more than 40 more countries have recognized Macedonia by her constitutional name. 131 countries fully recognize Macedonia today, including the United States, Canada, Russia, China, India, Turkey, and the United Kingdom.


Take a moment and imagine if Prime Minister Gruevski took the UN podium and stated what he said today, followed by:


"From this day forth, my country Macedonia will cease all negotiations with Greece over our name, and we submit a resolution to the United Nations General Assembly to be recognized under our constitutional name - the Republic of Macedonia."


I wish this had been done after the Greek veto in Bucharest, but it wasn't. Year after year, Macedonians worldwide have waited for such a statement to be made by Macedonia's leadership.


UMD calls upon the Macedonia's leadership to follow up on Prime Minister Gruevski's historic speech with the next logical step: to immediately cease the ongoing UN name negotiations, and to submit a resolution before the UN General Assembly to be re-admitted to the UN under its one and only constitutional and rightful name -- the Republic of Macedonia.


At the 67th United Nations General Assembly, we will expect this. But we need your help! Every Macedonian worldwide should take one minute of their time today, and e-mail the Prime Minister with something along these lines:


Dear Prime Minister Gruevski:


Thank you for your strong message to the leaders of the United Nations in New York. Your leadership initiatives to protect the Macedonian name, identity and language have been appreciated by Macedonians worldwide.


I join other Macedonians worldwide in urging you to immediately cease all UN name negotiations with Greece. Also, I urge you to submit a resolution before the UN General Assembly for our country to be re-admitted to the UN under our one and only name, the Republic of Macedonia.


(Please send e-mail to: [email protected], and [email protected])

[Vangelovski]

Meto's UMD has serious ideological flaws. While its good that they have finally decided to call on the Macedonian Government to end the negotiations, there is much more at stake than just that. UMD has accepted the Interim Accord and has refused to join other Macedonian organisations in calling on the Government to decare it 'null and void'. UMD is still light years behind the mainstream Macedonian diaspora organisations and even some organisations in Macedonia itself.

Further, I would question UMD's "legal" advice in that they ask Gruevski to "reapply" for admission to the UN. Past UN practice for name changes has been simply to circulate a diplomatic note among member states, informing them of the new name. So, the most Macedonia would have to do, as a sovereign state (and regardless of these SC Resolutions), is inform other UN member states that it will no longer be referred to as FYROM and from now on it will be referred to as Macedonia.

I think there is a lot of general confusion about what the UN actually is. Its just another organisation that happens to have more members than any other. The UN does not have the authority to decide whether a country is independent or not. Only the country in question has the ability to do that - that's why it is sovereign. And not all independent countries are UN members. For example, South Korea did not become a member until 1991, Switzerland did not become a UN member until 2002. Taiwan is not a UN member at all.

At the end of the day, it is up to Macedonia to inform the UN of its name and if the UN is unable to comply with our sovereign decision, then we need to question the value of that organisation.

[George S.]

good point pelister a case in point why is he not referring to the name as macedonia or is he afraid & uses a security blanket like republic in front of macedonia.Also in his speech he didn't mebtion how he has allready changed the name to appease the greeks.ROM (skopje) the greeks refused him.So in effect he is still open for negotiations on the name.Why doesn't he stop right now.
The umd is a useless organization just making money for itself & achieving very little for the diaspora.They are just as bad as our politicians.
So in effect gruevski just doesn't meet the standards of a people's priminister of coming clean with the agendas.He says one thing & does another.Allready capitulated on the name & is ready to jump only when someone says how high.He has allready caused immense damage to our identity by being open to negotiations.THe IA is not worth the paper it is written on why does he not pull out.He should know that it is an one sided document signed by treasoners & traitors who don't care for macedonia one way or the other.

[Zarni]

Vangelovski is correct on the UN process and importanly the importanance the UN has in a States integration into the Global Community

But is a vote on the UN floor required. Maybe just maybe Cruevski is preparing us for it
or am I just hoping

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski is correct on the UN process and importanly the importanance the UN has in a States integration into the Global Community

But is a vote on the UN floor required. Maybe just maybe Cruevski is preparing us for it
or am I just hoping

A vote is not required. Gruevski, true to his vassal mentality, is just begging rather than telling.

[George S.]

WEll look at the hopeless case .We are still known as fyrom when 130 countries around the world recognize us as republic of macedonia.It probably hasn't dawned on gruevski to just drop that reference as fyrom.Also maybe he is unaware that greece thinks it has a problem with the name.Greece has a province called macedonia which it was partiotione in 1913 wasn't known untill 1988 as a province of macedonia.So macedonia which is the rom part is the name of a country how can a province name be at odds with the bname of a country not unless you make it one.
Greece is out to destroy macedonia & it will do it any old way.So we have think smart & do something to prevent this from happening one way is to refuse to deal with them or listen to them.

[Vangelovski]

The latest from Gruevski. As always, he's leaving the way open for a name change "approved" by the people through a referendum:

Не прифаќаме никакво решение без тоа да биде одобрено на референдум од мнозинството од народот. Ниту едно или какво било решение не може да биде решение кое што ќе го загрози идентитетот на македонскиот народ, неговиот јазик - македонскиот јазик и македонската нација.

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=906D97F0675DB64D85C6ED70D9EA61EE

Basic translation:

We will not accept any solution without it being approved through a referendum by the majority of the people. No solution can be a solution if it endangers the identity of the Maceodnian people, their language - the Macedonian language and the Macedonian nation.

TRAITOR, TRAITOR, TRAITOR!

[Vangelovski]

Here is Gruevski's speech to the UN in full:

http://gadebate.un.org/sites/default...66/MK_en_0.pdf

I have not had a chance to analyse it yet.