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and have any of you who are passing judgement, spoken with or heard his views as they pertain to the Macedonian Cause?
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Who's passing judgement, I'm merely stating people know him.Originally posted by Rogi View PostIf my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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No one has herd him speak because he didnt wont to go on any radios plus he Australian campaign was secret were only 15 to 20 people were able to go see him. He didn wont to have any discussions with the other candidates.Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.
„Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил ЧакаларовComment
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Your words may not be passing judgement, but people are capable of reading between the lines.Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
Rogi, I am not passing judgement due to the fact that I haven't heard his views. I assume though that his views line up sufficiently with those of DPMNE more widely.Comment
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I know people that did get to meet him and he doesn't have a really solid view on the future for Macedonia and he sounds like Gruevski's little puppet.. Well he is Gruevski's puppet whole point of this candidate thing is to spread DPMNEs "great" cause through a proposed candidate which will be selected by the people. Gruevski isn't dumb he knows that those that would actually be bothered to vote would vote for DPMNE in the diasporaComment
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Nikola Gruevski of DPNE is negotiating the Macedonian name with foreigners. Miki joined DPNE. Rather than simply chiming in with a one-liner, why don't you explain what his views are? Why he has joined a political party that supported a name change for Macedonia's entry into NATO during 2008? Or are these questions 'taboo' in the DPNE circles of Australia?Originally posted by Rogi View PostIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
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Are you kidding? Why would I explain his views? That's for him to do, which he has done at a number of open public forums during the campaigning process.
I have no place explaining anyone's views, I have no right to speak on anyone's behalf, other than my own. Moreover, I have no interest in the matter given that I did not vote, other than to prevent, or call people out on any baseless allegations.
My comments relate t those of others here who 'chimed in with one-liners' passing judgement about 'puppetry' and false claims that there was some secret campaign with no radio or public forums. Of course, you've only said my comments were 'chiming in'.Last edited by Rogi; 06-17-2011, 04:48 AM.Comment
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Rogi, are you claiming that DPMNE has democratic internal structures that will allow its candidates to present their own views?Originally posted by Rogi View PostIf my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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Rogi lets be real about this ok its not going to happen.Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.
„Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил ЧакаларовComment
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No, I'm not kidding, and there's no need to dramatise, you're obviously familiar with his views, there is no difference in relaying them as opposed to relaying those of Gruevski or any other political figure. Why aren't you being transparent about information that is not confidential in any case? Why have you not answered my question with regard to Miki joining a political party that has negotiated our historical name and continues to do so, a political party that even you ceased to support?Originally posted by RogiIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
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No, I don't believe I was suggesting that with my previous post.Originally posted by Vangelovski View PostComment
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What makes you suggest that I am "obviously familiar with his views" and where did I provide indication of this?Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
My posts have been solely in response to simple allegations of puppetry and alleged secrecy, when a couple hundred people attended a few public gatherings over the course of the campaigning, which supposedly dispelled both of those allegations. Unless of course the allegations can be proved, in which case I will stand corrected, however these stories by Lavce for example of secrecy are dispelled completely by virtue of the fact that public gatherings were held.
You'll have to ask the attendee's what they heard, I can confirm nothing other than 3rd party information and in doing so I would be contradicting my own argument of providing factual information, as opposed to rumour and 'charsiski muabet'.
As for the reasons why people join certain political parties, or leave them, that is a question you can put forward to the person in question themselves. Nobody has the right to speak on their behalf, I have my own reasons for opposing VMRO-DPMNE and exiting that party which began with their coalition with the terrorists at DUI and has since evolved into further opposition to that party due to their deep and diametrical opposition to how I understand and define the Macedonian cause.Last edited by Rogi; 06-18-2011, 10:20 AM.Comment
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You seem to be denying allegations that DPMNE candidates are puppets. If that is the case, then you must be implying that there is some sort of internal democracy within the party...otherwise, I don't see how they can do anything without central approval.Originally posted by Rogi View PostIf my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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A further point I wish to highlight, as I already did so in my first post in this thread, is that any Macedonian Member of Parliament can resign from their political party and remain Member of Parliament.
I only highlight this point purely because of the highly Undemocratic and, in my view, Unconstitutional procedures put in place which essentially prevented any Independent Candidates. For any one individual to nominate themselves for Independent candidacy, they were required to provide 1,000 signatures from Macedonian citizens in their electorate who are eligible to vote. In Australia, there were less than 800 persons eligible to vote, it was therefore legally impossible for any independent candidates.
This was the case in all diaspora electorates and it is therefore understandable, in my opinion, why any individual may have become the candidate of any political party in Macedonia. Further to this, I again refer to the initial point made in this post and why I made that same initial point when Dusan Sinadinoski's son announced his father's candidacy as the SDSM candidate in the US/Canada electorate. Mind you, I'm not saying that the point I raise will be the result of this case, rather that it is a possibility.
What I do know, is that the MP's in the Diaspora will not be beholden to anyone, or any party, so much so that they or their family or their livelihood would be dependant on their allegiance to the party, as appears to be the case in Macedonia.Last edited by Rogi; 06-18-2011, 10:13 AM.Comment
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I don't know what processes exist within the VMRO-DPMNE political party at this stage, I have no insight nor involvement there whatsoever. However, that does not mean there are no democratic processes within the party, as is being alleged.
In which case, when an allegation is made as it has been, a basis, or proof, needs to be provided. I don't need to do anything, the onus is not on me. Otherwise, I could allege God does not exist, yet if I cannot prove it, I can only imagine your response.
Finally, I have no interest beyond simply playing the Devil's advocate in such debates.Last edited by Rogi; 06-18-2011, 10:17 AM.Comment
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