Macedonian Diaspora Candidates

[Soldier of Macedon]

What makes you suggest that I am "obviously familiar with his views" and where did I provide indication of this?

Because you're ready to dismiss as 'charsiski muabet' that which was written by certain others with regard to his views, like you know the truth, yet.........

You'll have to ask the attendee's what they heard, I can confirm nothing other than 3rd party information and in doing so I would be contradicting my own argument of providing factual information, as opposed to rumour and 'charsiski muabet'.

.......as you've just pointed out, your only basis to dismiss it was your own 'charsiski maubet' that you have clothed as "3rd party information".

As for the reasons why people join certain political parties, or leave them, that is a question you can put forward to the person in question themselves.

Surely Miki isn't ignorant of the fact that Gruevski is in alliance with former terrorists and offered a name change in 2008. Knowing this, I can't see the justification in joining a compromised political party. Can you? This is who he serves now:



Nikola Gruevski, PM of FYR Macedonia - and seemingly proud of it.

[Rogi]

Sure, ok, I'm not sure that I see your argument.

I've made no allegation or claim, nor denial of anything, rather I've asked that allegations be supported with fact. Any unsubstantiated claim is nothing more than rumor.

I'm surprised by the position your taking in this specific argument, which I see as a contradiction on your part where you normally require proof of allegation on any issue, except now.

[Vangelovski]

DPMNE has shown its treasonous political views quite publically (the evidence is readily available). Any association with them automatically raises the question of whether the individual agrees with the DPMNE position.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Sure, ok, I'm not sure that I see your argument.

You asked how people here could pass judgement on Miki if they aren't familiar with his views as they pertain to the Macedonian Cause. I then highlighted the fact that Gruevski and DPNE are negotiating the Macedonian name with foreigners. If Miki is with DPNE, that indicates his support for Gruevski and his policies. I do not want to believe it, but I find it hard to come to any other conclusion. That is my argument and only position on this discussion. If there is information that you can shed some light on, then share it.

I'm surprised by the position your taking in this specific argument, which I see as a contradiction on your part where you normally require proof of allegation on any issue, except now.

You're suprised because you either have not read what I wrote properly or you are deliberately trying to misconstrue what I wrote to suit your own back-peddling argument.

[Pelister]

DPMNE has shown its treasonous political views quite publically (the evidence is readily available). Any association with them automatically raises the question of whether the individual agrees with the DPMNE position.

Tom, unfortunately for all of us its the policy platform of "every single party" to be meddling with our identity. What we need is a party that says 'No' to negotiations and 'No' to the Interim Accord - and begins the process of moving the issue of our admission to the United Nations back where it belongs - in the U.N - not outside of it.

[Rogi]

Why would I be back-peddling? I'm the one calling for allegations of 'puppetry' and 'secrecy' to be backed up.

You're either pushing a bias, or allowing baseless allegation and rumour, which I find contradicts your entire persona as I see it, on the forum.

I suppose for some balance, here is one piece of information, read into it as you like. Miki was the main organiser of the 2008 Macedonian Protest in Melbourne. At the time he was also heavily involved with VMRO-DPMNE.

That protest was largely against the policies of VMRO-DPMNE, evidenced by the adopted Resolution (Read Here).

[Soldier of Macedon]

Why would I be back-peddling? I'm the one calling for allegations of 'puppetry' and 'secrecy' to be backed up.

And I am the one calling for allegations to the contrary to be backed up. What's the problem?

You're either pushing a bias, or allowing baseless allegation and rumour, which I find contradicts your entire persona as I see it, on the forum.

Oh please, enough with the dramatisation, like I have something personally against the guy. It's complete rubbish. I am making an assessment based on what I currently know, and I don't appreciate your insinuation that I am contradicting my whole persona on this site. The next time you wish to make such a silly statement, you'd better make sure you adequately back it up. I am starting to tire from these sort of armchair criticisms by people who don't feel compelled to elaborate on their arguments. One has to wonder why you've been so defensive and touchy about this whole discussion. This isn't the first time people on this forum have criticised others, why the desperate intervention now?

I suppose for some balance, here is one piece of information, read into it as you like. Miki was the main organiser of the 2008 Macedonian Protest in Melbourne. At the time he was also heavily involved with VMRO-DPMNE.

That protest was largely against the policies of VMRO-DPMNE, evidenced by the adopted Resolution

What changed from 2008 to 2011 that made DPNE more attractive to Miki, given that he was against their policies on this most important issue concerning the Macedonian people? Did he change, or did DPNE?

[Vangelovski]

I think its common knowledge that all DPMNE Branch Presidents in Australia need to be personally approved by Gruevski. I think it is also common knowledge that the same applied to the DPMNE candidate for Australia.

Given that internal DPMNE requirement, I fail to see how any candidate would not be a Gruevski puppet.

[Pelister]

Hey, guys, we need to cool it a bit.

Tom is probably right with this one, even though it might be the personal belief of the guy (Miki) that the 'negotiations' the Accord, the Framework Agreement, have to go. Unfortunately most Macedonians accept the status quo, because they don't know any better. An individual is unlikely to take a principled position, if he or she doesn't know why the 'negotiations' are a sham, or why the Accord is a treasonous document....etc. I personally, knowing what I know could never support VMRO - I don't think that party deserves to be called by that name, given its positions. I think it would be better for Macedonian democracy to have individuals who "don't" tow a party line or policy platform - and have the courage to call for an end to the negotiations, among other things; but is the current government likely to 'choose' a candidate if that is what they believe? Who decides anyway?

[Mastika]

I think its common knowledge that all DPMNE Branch Presidents in Australia need to be personally approved by Gruevski. I think it is also common knowledge that the same applied to the DPMNE candidate for Australia.

Given that internal DPMNE requirement, I fail to see how any candidate would not be a Gruevski puppet.

Point taken. Does this mean that we should dismiss Miki as a serious candidate, and rather consider him to be only Gruevski's puppet? Is there nothing positive at all you can say about the fact that Australia has a member of parliament?

[Vangelovski]

Point taken. Does this mean that we should dismiss Miki as a serious candidate, and rather consider him to be only Gruevski's puppet? Is there nothing positive at all you can say about the fact that Australia has a member of parliament?

If he was an independent, I'd be interested in his personal views. Seeing he is a party member, I couldn't care less what he thinks because the thinking will be done for him at DPMNE headquarters.

On the second point, only 750 people bothered to register and vote in Australia. I think this says more than just the fact that it was difficult to register and difficult to vote. As Australians who live in a democratic political system, I think Macedonians here (and in the US and Europe) see right through the corruption and vassalism that is endemic in the Macedonian political system and do not consider it legitimate.

[Bill77]

Instead of pushing him away, we should work with him and influence him.

I don't think by being an VMRO member automaticlly makes you a pro 'negotiations' 'Accord', and Framework Agreement. By Miki being a VMRO member is a good thing, this way he can infiltrate the party and with our influence, he could cause some waves in there. I can't see why he wouldn't when he has to face us at the end of the day.

[Vangelovski]

He's also part of the Petar crowd.

[julie]

Bill , how much influence does one individual in any political party have in this country, much less an individual part of a party oceans apart , bate ? I am clue less how the system operated. Was there an option to run as an independent ?

[julie]

He's also part of the Petar crowd.

That is 2 nails in the coffin . Is this whole diaspora representation in government part of a ploy to cause further divisiveness amongst the diaspora ? By the way , happy birthday .