Macedonian Diaspora Candidates

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  • Bill77
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 4545

    Originally posted by julie View Post
    Bill , how much influence does one individual in any political party have in this country, much less an individual part of a party oceans apart , bate ? I am clue less how the system operated. Was there an option to run as an independent ?
    Well it depends what type of person he is. Look at what this one person "Julian Assange" did to the worlds most powerful Country. And he was also the same oceans apart as Miki.
    (I am aware Miki is no Julian but Macedonia is no USA aswell)

    imho, if he was an independent, he would be much less influential. This way by being a VMRO member, he can really dig with in, and if we can mould him the way he should be, he would do more good than harm for our cause.

    Vangelovski, when it comes to politics and the current situation regarding our identity, we can excuse him for being part of the Peter crowd. The two will not mix on this occasion.
    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15660

      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
      He's also part of the Petar crowd.
      Aren't most VMRO types here in Australia?
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8534

        Originally posted by julie View Post
        By the way , happy birthday .
        Thanks Julie
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8534

          Originally posted by Rogi
          Tom, I suppose guilt by association and insinuated ad hominem is all that's required?

          I guess trying to find actual views, actual statements and truth is of lesser importance. I'm just double-checking the site to make sure this is the Macedonian Truth forum.
          Guilt by association? He's a member of DPMNE and President of the Melbourne DPMNE Branch. He was elected on the DPMNE platform. He is part of the official party machine. Further, his links with, and support for, Petar are common knowledge.

          What associational guilt are you talking about? He wasn't seen randomly hanging out with Gruevski and Petar on a personal basis for there to be some speculation or guilt by association.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Bill77
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 4545

            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
            Aren't most VMRO types here in Australia?
            Not this one
            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13675

              Originally posted by Vangelovski
              He's a member of DPMNE and President of the Melbourne DPMNE Branch. He was elected on the DPMNE platform. He is part of the official party machine. Further, his links with, and support for, Petar are common knowledge.
              Rogi, do you think Miki's support for Petar should be a concern?
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Mastika
                Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 503

                People need to realise that Miki is no longer a candidate for election, but rather he is now the member for Australia. Therefore, by default, he is also the member for all Macedonians citizens living in Australia. The fact that he is from DPMNE is not a reason to label him as 'Gruevski's puppet', etc. Would it not now make sense to work with him to ensure that the voice of the Australian diaspora is heard and to try and get some funding from overseas to help support Macedonian organisations working in Australia, etc.

                Rather than being practical there are a select group of users on the this forum who just seem to boycott anything they are opposed to, rather than working the differences out.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15660

                  Originally posted by Mastika View Post
                  Rather than being practical there are a select group of users on the this forum who just seem to boycott anything they are opposed to, rather than working the differences out.
                  So you are pro-negotiation (in every sense) then.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8534

                    Originally posted by Mastika View Post
                    People need to realise that Miki is no longer a candidate for election, but rather he is now the member for Australia. Therefore, by default, he is also the member for all Macedonians citizens living in Australia.
                    No he's not, he can only legitimately represent those 750 that registered to vote.

                    Originally posted by Mastika View Post
                    The fact that he is from DPMNE is not a reason to label him as 'Gruevski's puppet', etc. Would it not now make sense to work with him to ensure that the voice of the Australian diaspora is heard and to try and get some funding from overseas to help support Macedonian organisations working in Australia, etc.

                    Rather than being practical there are a select group of users on the this forum who just seem to boycott anything they are opposed to, rather than working the differences out.
                    That's a naive understanding of Macedonian politics.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13675

                      Mastika, now that he is in the parliament, do you think Miki would oppose his leader on issues such as the name 'dispute' that was created by Greece? People like yourself and Rogi seem to think that he should receive automatic support just because he is from Australia, and that we should disregard the fact that the party he has joined proposed a name other than the official one to gain entry into NATO, and the fact that he supports a 'bishop' who has tried to cripple the Macedonian Orthodox community in Australia. Both of you sound like these amatuerish UMD apologists who defended Meto when Meto wouldn't even defend himself.

                      Do you support Petar? I know that Rogi has danced around the question a few times:

                      Well Well Well what do we see, it seems like the new Ambassador is coming with a plan lets hope he is successful at achieving it. We have two important points here, one is to get Australia to recognize us while the other is to end the church dispute. Alot of people dont seem to realize how important the church issue really is
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Rogi
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2343

                        SoM,

                        Ne tresi gluposti. You have no idea what you are on about, your whole thing is about being 'right' even when you've missed the point.

                        Where did I even imply that anyone needs automatic support? I made it clear that I did not even vote, and I am entitled to.

                        Read over it again, don't go too far into an invention of yor own and don't even think about putting any words into my mouth/posts again.

                        My posts were about asking for evidence of the allegations. Yours is about every other issue under the sun, uncluding the Church (?) which bear no relevance to my posts and point that allegations should be supported by evidence and fact.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13675

                          Originally posted by Rogi
                          Ne tresi gluposti........
                          Ne tresam jas gluposti, tuku ti nogu se brzas da si go branis prijatelo a ne sakas da dais nekakov dokaz da vidime zosto mislis kako mislis. Osven da dais nesto, ti mi brboris so prazni zboroi.
                          .......don't go too far into an invention of yor own and don't even think about putting any words into my mouth/posts again
                          What words did I put into your mouth/posts? You mean like you've done below with myself:
                          Yours is about every other issue under the sun...........
                          Silly generalisation. Be specific.
                          My posts were about asking for evidence of the allegations.
                          And what is wrong with asking for evidence to the contrary?
                          uncluding the Church (?) which bear no relevance to my posts
                          It bears relevance to Miki because he supports Petar, and yourself, because you've never criticised Petar for his treacherous actions, despite your involvement in the several discussions that have taken place with respect to that particular issue. Is it wrong to ask you what your position is regarding Petar? If this is the wrong thread, then answer it on the link I provided above.

                          Why are you being so touchy with this whole issue, aside from chiming into this discussion in defence of your mate? Or is that the only reason? Do you think we haven't the right to criticise him when we know that he supports Petar, and we know that he is in the party of Gruevski, the man who almost sold us out (again) in 2008? Do we not have a right to question his motives after he joins such a party?
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8534

                            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                            Guilt by association? He's a member of DPMNE and President of the Melbourne DPMNE Branch. He was elected on the DPMNE platform. He is part of the official party machine. Further, his links with, and support for, Petar are common knowledge.

                            What associational guilt are you talking about? He wasn't seen randomly hanging out with Gruevski and Petar on a personal basis for there to be some speculation or guilt by association.
                            Rogi, you haven't addressed the above.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Mastika
                              Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 503

                              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                              So you are pro-negotiation (in every sense) then.
                              No, I am not. But by this logic, the 1,200,000 Macedonians who voted in the recent elections are also pro-negotiations given that they voted for a political party (apparently all political parties are pro-negotiations). Correct me if this not an understandable conclusion to come arrive at by using your logic.

                              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                              No he's not, he can only legitimately represent those 750 that registered to vote.
                              This is a false statement. I also disagree with the way in which voting was handled, however this does not make him an illegitimate representative. He is however the representative of Macedonian citizens living in Australia in the Macedonian parliament. As long as the electoral criteria was met, then the number of electors is irrelevant. (I believe that if a candidate which you approved of was elected, then you would have been muted, to say the least, in your claims that he is not a legitimate MP, etc.)

                              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                              That's a naive understanding of Macedonian politics.
                              Maybe it is naive, maybe it is being somewhat hopeful.

                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Mastika, now that he is in the parliament, do you think Miki would oppose his leader on issues such as the name 'dispute' that was created by Greece?
                              I honestly don't know. One would hope that he effectively represents his constituents, and this would of course be lodging his objection to the name dispute, etc. I personally would like to see what he can do for community groups and organisations here in the diaspora, and how he can assist people in promoting the Macedonian culture, identity, language, etc. at a grassroots level.

                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              People like yourself and Rogi seem to think that he should receive automatic support just because he is from Australia, and that we should disregard the fact that the party he has joined proposed a name other than the official one to gain entry into NATO, and the fact that he supports a 'bishop' who has tried to cripple the Macedonian Orthodox community in Australia. Both of you sound like these amatuerish UMD apologists who defended Meto when Meto wouldn't even defend himself.
                              I do not believe that he should receive our automatic support (my posts no where say this), rather I believe that he should be given a reasonable amount of time as the elected member before we can fairly judge what he has done for his constituents.

                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Do you support Petar? I know that Rogi has danced around the question a few times:
                              I firmly believe that the Churches should remain in the hands of those people that built them and that they should not be seized forcibly the vladika, or anyone else for that matter. (short answer: no)

                              Comment

                              • Rogi
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2343

                                I'm talking about the implication against his character, based on association relating to Church matters, which still bear no relevance to my initial posts.

                                SoM, my posts are not in the defense of anyone, rather against allegation and rumour. In the same way I'd have done if it were anyone else in question.

                                I also won't be dragged into issues that I have no real interest in. Like the one you are pushing, furthermore there are other posts where I have shared my views in other threads - none of that is relevant to the issue here, which remains, despite its name Macedonian Truth forum is now seemingly allowing allegation and rumor without seeking any basis and evidence - if it suits the view of the Administrator. That's hardly a recipe for truth and a slippery slope indeed.

                                As for putting words in my mouth, I refer to your baseless allegation that I have advocated for automatic support. In fact, it is the contrary, when I have said I did not even vote myself - I revealed this to indicate my non bias and that my post is not about support or defense, but about truth and fact being the requirement to substantiate any claim or allegation.

                                For me, friendship has no bearing on principle, particularly on principle pertaining to the Macedonian cause. Perhaps this is not clear to you.


                                Finally, I am also personally very affended, as you intended, by your personal attack against me, comparing me to the 'UMD apolpgists'. You clearly have no concept or understanding of the absolute issues of principles that I raised in my initial post, or you choose to ignore them.

                                In any case, I withdraw from future posts here, it's hardly worth my time when it seems the priority is argument above all.
                                Last edited by Rogi; 06-22-2011, 04:27 AM.

                                Comment

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