Ex-UCK commander is the new Macedonian defense minister

[Pelagon]

That is a bit nasty bratko and you all (i.e. the harsh reactionary critics) should take a more considered view of why we are in the predicament we are in. There is a lot of forces ranged against Macedonians that are at constant play or in constant operation and working overtime in order to produce the kind of mentality (politically disorganised and lacking any genuine sense of nationalism/patriotism) that we see today in the Ramkovist republic (and as far as i can see, with some exceptions, the Diaspora is NOT that much better in its patriotism).

In the main, patriotism and nationalism does NOT come our of thin air but it is rather nurtured through state and/or religious institutions and in the absence of a national state, by national movements and their organs and institutions.

There is also a lot of historical legacy for why Macedonian nationalism is in such a weak state, e.g. Exarchate and Bulgarian state interference and influence in VMRO pre WWII and Serbian/Yugoslav influence and legacy after WWII via SRM (come RM) institutions and their policies and practices. From what I can see, Macedonains have not really ventured to succesfully do anything of political substance on their own, i.e. without the backing (or pushing) from some major political player, especially from the Balkan "big brothers" Bulgaria (for TMORO/VMRO) and CPY/Yugoslavia/Serbia (for WWII Partisans and in Yugoslavia - SFRY). Today the ruling circles in MK are beholden to their EU and USA masters and the UCK.

Although what you say about influences and the reason why we are at where we are may be true, using it as an excuse only perpetuates the situation. It is simply not a good enough excuse. Are they not acting cowardly? Are they not acting like slaves in their own country? I am sorry but The Macedonians produced a hand full of rowdy kids, and the albanian counter protest was 10x the size. How can a minority a 1/4 of the size of the majority produce a 10x larger showing when it was the minority who is committing the injustice to begin with? I am sorry but the embarrassment that played out before our eyes is so bad that I don't think you can be too harsh. At the end of the day it's up to the people who live there not the Diaspora to change things. It is where they live, they have no other place to go, they are the ones who will be stuck not the Diaspora. In this case it was up to the people in ROM to stand up and at least be heard, but I guess all the outrage was as plastic as our patriotism.
It hurt me deeply to say what I said but else can I say? its 2013 not 1913, by now there should have been some kind of progress, even with all the obstructions common sense should have prevailed by now.
I guess Macedonians want to eventually have an albanian president, have their kids learn albanian, have their daughters abused on the streets with no justice to be seen, be second class citizens in their own country, have narco dealers run the country, etc.
What does an actual slave do? For one they get abused and do not fight back because of the perception that they can't do anything. They have no rights and ask for none. They do what they are told and don't argue. They look to others to free them. The most tell tale sign is that slaves are always more in number than their masters but never muster up the unity and mental strength to go against their oppressor even though they could easily defeat them.
A duck is a duck is a duck.

I am afraid your take on a very complex issue is rather shallow (even childish) and simplistic.

Were you not the one calling for people from around the world to meet with you in order to do something about the sad situation that Macedonians are faced with today (I think there was a thread titled "Operation sonce" somewhere on MTO Forums)? So why should the Diaspora concern itself with Macedonian matters if according to you "At the end of the day it's up to the people who live there not the Diaspora to change things."? What was that call about?

The mass media and state institutions,(e.g. education system) are working overtime to create exactly the type of Macedonians (and Macedonian comprehension for crucial issues for Macedonian national survival and sovereignty) that you see today. That is something you will NOT see applied to Greeks, Bulgarians and Shiptars in any significant manner where it concerns their ambit national and historical claims on land and heritage. That is a VERY IMPORTANT FACT to consider before one condemns the ordinary Macedonians for all the ills of the state and nation. Without change on the ground to counter that destructive demoralising and denationalising influence, no progress should be expected.

The Macedonian "ORGANISED" DIASPORA in the main is compliant and acts as an appendage of the state and/or political establishment in the republic. Thus those in the Diaspora who want to see change should really try to change the community structures that operate in their midst so that they become opposed to the anti-Macedonian agendas emanating from the republic and work to promote Macedonian patriotism and sovereignty. If it is not possible to change certain organisations, then form new ones and oppose the influence of the ones that promote the anti-Macedonian ideology and also campaign against the traitors in the republic on all issues and at all levels.

------------
The following is some info for you to read and ponder on:

'Free' Macedonia Faces Hostile World - New York Times [1992]

"....Macedonia stands on the brink of independence, as one of four republics that have voted to secede. Each day, trucks make the 310-mile journey from the Macedonian capital, Skopje, to Belgrade, the Yugoslav and Serbian capital, withdrawing men and equipment from the 40,000-member Yugoslav Army garrison. Not Without Regret

IN MANY NEW NATIONS, IT WOULD BE A TIME FOR FLAGS AND ANTHEMS. But here, the mood is subdued, as though many of Macedonia's 2.3 million people feel that independence is coming at too high a price, and in a way that could yet generate problems more burdensome than half a century of Communism. AT BEST, MANY OF THE GOVERNMENT LEADERS RESPONSIBLE FOR ESTABLISHING THE NEW STATE APPEAR TO BE GOING ABOUT THEIR TASKS RELUCTANTLY, WITH ONE EYE ON WHAT THE REPUBLIC HAS LOST.

"IN THE PAST, WHEN I HEARD PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT INDEPENDENCE, I USED TO SAY, 'QUIET, QUIET, WE ARE NOT MUCH BIGGER THAN A SUBURB OF LONDON OR NEW YORK," SAID JANE MILJOVSKI, A 44-YEAR-OLD ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, WHO IS ALSO MINISTER FOR PRIVATIZATION.

LJUBOMIR FRCKOVSKI, THE INTERIOR MINISTER, A CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR WHO IS 34 YEARS OLD, SAID, "WE ALL FEEL SOME REGRETS." ..."

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/01/world/free-macedonia-faces-hostile-world.html

Албански комунистички лидери имале план да посвојат дел и од Македонија

"Комунистичките лидери на Албанија, тогаш најзатворена европска диктатура, на своите тајни состаноци кон крајот на 70-те и почетокот на 80-те години планирале воена операција „Шпертими“ (Експлозија) против Југославија, пишува денеска загрепскиот весник Јутарњи лист [http://www.jutarnji.hr/operacija-eks...mrti/1088309/].

Според пишувањето на весникот, со таа операција Албанија, по смртта на Јосип Броз Тито кога ќе почнат внатрешните клановски борби за власт во Југославија, со брза акција на својата армија планирала да го присвои Косово и делови на Македонија и од Црна Гора.

Во текстот „Тајна операција - Експлозија“, стои како Енвер Хоџа се подготвувал за „хаосот по Тито“...."

http://www.plusinfo.mk/vest/82842/Albanski-komunistichki-lideri-imale-plan-da-posvojat-del-i-od-Makedonija

За нас македонците! -- Тодор Петров

"...Политиките и интересите на Белград и Атина продолжија и по Втората Светска Војна. Затоа, ние бевме Македонија и во поранешна Југославија, но со забранета историја и археологија. Нашето идеологизирано образование, во орвеловата перална на мозоци, не учеше за историја и археологија меѓу актуелните граници од 1944 година, никако подолу и никако повеќе отколку што другите за нас велеа дека треба.

Зошто (о)станавме Словени? Многу едноставно, за секогаш да не’ потсетуваат: Вие сте дојдени од зад Карпатите, ова не е Ваше, ова е наше! Македонија е грчка! Македонија е грчка сопственост и грчко е нејзиното наследство. Инаку, како ќе се легализираше грчката окупација на Македонија и грчкиот геноцид врз Македонците од Балканските војни во 1912 година.....

....Поентата на елоквенцијава беше за корените, потеклото, сопственоста и наследството ... Едно време и во Албанија владееше еден романтизам, па пишуваа истории дека се Илири. Светот им се смееше, па самите се зауздија и подзастанаа, затоа што и Хрватите велат дека се Илири, Илирија била понасевер во Далмација, а не во Албанија. Па, станаа Дарданци иако и тие биле Македонци. Денес, во Македонија, Албанците повторно се врзаа за таа теза. Тие велат, ние сме Илири, староседелци, и ова е наше. Не случајно против македонската енциклопедија во Тетово демонстрираа со жолти маички на кои со црни букви пишуваше “Македонско-Илирска Фаланга“, го затворија кругот и се вратија во јатото. Продолжуваат: Вие, од зад Карпатите, вратете си се таму. Велат, ние си договоривме приказна. Тоа што Вие не знаете кои сте и од каде сте, не е наш проблем. Токму така. Наш проблем не се соседите, ги знаеме кои се тие, што сакаат и зошто се против нас. Проблем се сијамските Бранко и ЉуБчо, Тито и Стојан. Тие ја транзитираат Македонија зад Карпатите, оти треба да ги одработат парите на другите и туѓите за да не нема. Тие, давениците ... Кога го губат тлото под нозе, да може цел свет би го повлекле со себе, затоа што знаат дека повеќе нема да ги има ..." http://www.maktel.mk/ajax_kolumni.php?kid=5

[Gocka]

I am afraid your take on a very complex issue is rather shallow (even childish) and simplistic.

See I have been through the paces a million times by now, the complexity of the situation has been discussed a million times by now by me by everyone on here, the reason for the simplistic and shallow post is simple, I am enraged. You can blame anyone and anything you want but at the end of the day they are just excuses if Macedonians can't even take the basic steps needed. What can an observer do except become enraged, surely they did nothing worthy of praise?

Were you not the one calling for people from around the world to meet with you in order to do something about the sad situation that Macedonians are faced with today (I think there was a thread titled "Operation sonce" somewhere on MTO Forums)? So why should the Diaspora concern itself with Macedonian matters if according to you "At the end of the day it's up to the people who live there not the Diaspora to change things."? What was that call about?

I did call for us to come together and see what we can do, and I still do, but from a far all we can really do is give tactical support and help spread our message to the countries we reside in, which is what we do. I cannot organize a protest for Macedonians in ROM, I can organize one where I live though, but if people in ROM are not protesting, I can't protest on their behalf without looking like a complete idiot. I can't b ring up issues and fight for something that Macedonians themselves won't fight for.

The mass media and state institutions,(e.g. education system) are working overtime to create exactly the type of Macedonians (and Macedonian comprehension for crucial issues for Macedonian national survival and sovereignty) that you see today. That is something you will NOT see applied to Greeks, Bulgarians and Shiptars in any significant manner where it concerns their ambit national and historical claims on land and heritage. That is a VERY IMPORTANT FACT to consider before one condemns the ordinary Macedonians for all the ills of the state and nation. Without change on the ground to counter that destructive demoralising and denationalising influence, no progress should be expected.

You've got to be kidding me? Well this comment only confirms what I suspected; that you are an apologist and a defeatist. No progress should be expected? They are not blind ok, they know very well what is happening and they will tell you to your face exactly what is happening, but if you ask him what he is going to do about it the best you can hope for is a shrug and a lame excuse. They are not nearly as ignorant as you would like to make them to be.

The Macedonian "ORGANISED" DIASPORA in the main is compliant and acts as an appendage of the state and/or political establishment in the republic. Thus those in the Diaspora who want to see change should really try to change the community structures that operate in their midst so that they become opposed to the anti-Macedonian agendas emanating from the republic and work to promote Macedonian patriotism and sovereignty. If it is not possible to change certain organisations, then form new ones and oppose the influence of the ones that promote the anti-Macedonian ideology and also campaign against the traitors in the republic on all issues and at all levels.

This is exactly what most of us on here try to accomplish and at the end of the day this is what we are capable of doing. In Macedonia we are considered outsiders, we do not have the credentials to go there and convince anyone of anything, THAT IS THE JOB OF PEOPLE IN ROM.

[Niko777]

some of these albaninas have lived in macedonia for hundreds of years but they are still albanians,somehow they have to be called macedonians as well.

The simple reality is that a huge number of Albanians are in fact recent citizens. And they will take a long time to assimilate in to the local culture. But the local culture is changing too fast to ever become a target. So Macedonia is all but lost on these Albanians. They have no desire to even be affiliated with the nation.

I see no workable solution if the current climate exists.

The Albanians will never be assimilated in Macedonian culture because of the current state sponsored Albanian nationalism in the country. There are too many problems in the current system, here are some problems in the Macedonian education system for example:
- why are Albanians entitled to separate history school books from Macedonian students, books that focus on the history of Albania and the Albanian people and not Macedonia?
-why is the Macedonian language taught to Albanian students in only half their school life? And as a third language (after Albanian and English)!??? Albanian students are separated from Macedonians and are taught all the subjects (Math, Science, Philosophy) exclusively in the Albanian language when they should be taught in the Macedonian language along with Macedonian students.
-why are Albanian students taught the Albanian national anthem and not the Macedonian anthem?

Then you have government propaganda that is divided between Macedonians and Albanians. A few years ago, Gruevski's government set out a campaign where they posted billboards across Macedonian cities that read "TI SI MAKEDONIJA" when in reality they should have posted these signs in cities like Tetovo, Gostivar, Aracinovo, Zajas, etc. Now we have the Skopje 2014 project which is again targeted towards Macedonians only, when it should be targeted towards Albanians. Instead we see a separate program for Albanians such as the new Skenderbeg Square in Skopje, the Albanian flag celebrations, and statues of Albanian heroes being installed across western Macedonia. A statue of Goce Delchev should make Albanians proud, not make them say "oh he is your hero so now we want a statue of Goli Mandi" the hero in their history books that were provided by the Macedonian education system.

I hope people here understand what I am trying to say. The Macedonian state has in recent years turn even the most moderate and loyal Albanian into extremists/separatists with the ignorant use of the education system and state propaganda.

[Rogi]

Why did Gruevski allow the appointment of a former UCK commander (read: terrorist) to the position of Defence Minister? Let's call it Calculated Delusion of Grandeur.

Here's how I'd assume it to have played out.

- Election is coming up
- DUI is going to be the clear winner from the Albanian bloc
- Knowing this, DUI would have pushed an ultimatum threatening the coalition
- Gruevski would have evaluated the political points he would lose with this appointment
- Gruevski will try and off-set this disaster by bringing Johan Tarculovski into the DPMNE fold
- Gruevski's delusions of grandeur force him into believing that he is the only one that can do any good for Macedonia, despite having ruined the core purpose of Macedonia's existence as an independent state.

It's a calculated assessment where he knows he will lose votes, but not that many, he will still maintain enough to win and keep his coalition. It is a calculated move, fuelled by the delusion of grandeur.

Where does patriotism, or even the remote care for the Macedonian people and the Macedonian nation-state fare in this? It doesn't.

Why wont Gruevski lose too many votes over this? Because the Macedonian people already have a slave-mentality keeping their heads bowed and like any other dictator, he's ensured that people are dependant on him and his party, that they must vote for him to keep their jobs and their livelihoods. Not unlike the opposition would do when they get their turn in power too. Which is exactly why the vicious cycle continues - VMRO voters will keep voting that way knowing they'll be replaced and lose their jobs and livelihoods if SDSM win and vice versa. There's no real democracy in Macedonia since your livelihood depends on your political allegiance.

The biggest problem in Macedonia is the political parties. They server their own interests before those of the country and its' people and in doing so, they've destroyed all that is Macedonian in Macedonia.

[Niko777]

Albanians plan another protest this Friday

- http://brif.mk/makedonija/albanci-na...esti-vo-petok/

[PetroV]

This new defense minister was in kla ,but he was an agent/infiltrator for and of the Macedonian government and his number came up and here he is with a seat he deserves .

Gruevski knows this so do other politicians of the inside as well as some Albanians but are to embarrassed to say anything

ps Don't ask me how I know because I cannot tell

[makedonche]

Why did Gruevski allow the appointment of a former UCK commander (read: terrorist) to the position of Defence Minister? Let's call it Calculated Delusion of Grandeur.

Here's how I'd assume it to have played out.

- Election is coming up
- DUI is going to be the clear winner from the Albanian bloc
- Knowing this, DUI would have pushed an ultimatum threatening the coalition
- Gruevski would have evaluated the political points he would lose with this appointment
- Gruevski will try and off-set this disaster by bringing Johan Tarculovski into the DPMNE fold
- Gruevski's delusions of grandeur force him into believing that he is the only one that can do any good for Macedonia, despite having ruined the core purpose of Macedonia's existence as an independent state.

It's a calculated assessment where he knows he will lose votes, but not that many, he will still maintain enough to win and keep his coalition. It is a calculated move, fuelled by the delusion of grandeur.

Where does patriotism, or even the remote care for the Macedonian people and the Macedonian nation-state fare in this? It doesn't.

Why wont Gruevski lose too many votes over this? Because the Macedonian people already have a slave-mentality keeping their heads bowed and like any other dictator, he's ensured that people are dependant on him and his party, that they must vote for him to keep their jobs and their livelihoods. Not unlike the opposition would do when they get their turn in power too. Which is exactly why the vicious cycle continues - VMRO voters will keep voting that way knowing they'll be replaced and lose their jobs and livelihoods if SDSM win and vice versa. There's no real democracy in Macedonia since your livelihood depends on your political allegiance.

The biggest problem in Macedonia is the political parties. They server their own interests before those of the country and its' people and in doing so, they've destroyed all that is Macedonian in Macedonia.

Rogi
Makes perfect sense.....the analysis...no the situation!

[makedonche]

This new defense minister was in kla ,but he was an agent/infiltrator for and of the Macedonian government and his number came up and here he is with a seat he deserves .

Gruevski knows this so do other politicians of the inside as well as some Albanians but are to embarrassed to say anything

ps Don't ask me how I know because I cannot tell

PetroV
Very difficult to believe.

[makedonche]

Albanians plan another protest this Friday

- http://brif.mk/makedonija/albanci-na...esti-vo-petok/

Niko77
And the Macedonians are planning another day in front of the tv to watch it live?

[Vangelovski]

This new defense minister was in kla ,but he was an agent/infiltrator for and of the Macedonian government and his number came up and here he is with a seat he deserves .

Gruevski knows this so do other politicians of the inside as well as some Albanians but are to embarrassed to say anything

ps Don't ask me how I know because I cannot tell

If you can't tell don't even post it in the first place because it just smells like BS to begin with.

[Niko777]

Albanians in Tirana burned photos of Gruevski, announce "Skopje will be Third Albanian Capital"

[Risto the Great]

The Albanians have no idea.
They should be framing his picture, he is making their dream come true.

[Vangelovski]

The Albanians have no idea.
They should be framing his picture, he is making their dream come true.

Masters don't hang up pictures of their servants.

[Risto the Great]

Masters don't hang up pictures of their servants.

Oh I don't know, sometimes a master likes a nice picture of his dog in the lounge.

[Vangelovski]

Oh I don't know, sometimes a master likes a nice picture of his dog in the lounge.

Thats more of a facebook thing these days...