Kevin Rudd Prime Minister Again

[Vangelovski]

The differences are between personal and government debt.

Personal debt is the real evil and the only issue a government should be concerned about...unfortunately Tony Abbott has done very little to address personal debt in this country.

The obvious problem with having personal debt is that you have a finite time to repay it.

Governments are a perpetual entity with infinite time to pay off debt...
Long term government debt is not an issue for most countries and we're nowhere near the OECD averages for government debt...

At the moment our government should be borrowing money like there's no tomorrow to take advantage of cheap money on world markets, this money should be spent on massive infrastructure projects across the country to place Australia in an enviable position against it's international competitors, not the bullshit "crisis" scenario peddled by Abbott and swallowed by his acolytes

That's a mind boggling statement...what business is personal debt of the government?

Why shouldn't governments be concerned about government debts? They certainly don't have an infinite amount of time to pay off their debt...bonds mature way before infinity.

I was referring to government expenses - higher education was the current example. Where exactly would you obtain the funds to pay for it?

[Phoenix]

yeh Phoenix.....take that

http://i.imgur.com/qjKzC9K.gif

...fark me...lol

[Phoenix]

Does anyone have an answer to where the money should come from...at the end of the day, it does cost money. Or is debt the only answer?

While I agree with EM that not all debt is inherently bad - some of it is obviously productive in that it creates wealth - I'd say that most government debt is bad as it is unproductive debt.

The differences are between personal and government debt.

Personal debt is the real evil and the only issue a government should be concerned about...unfortunately Tony Abbott has done very little to address personal debt in this country.

The obvious problem with having personal debt is that you have a finite time to repay it.

Governments are a perpetual entity with infinite time to pay off debt...
Long term government debt is not an issue for most countries and we're nowhere near the OECD averages for government debt...

At the moment our government should be borrowing money like there's no tomorrow to take advantage of cheap money on world markets, this money should be spent on massive infrastructure projects across the country to place Australia in an enviable position against it's international competitors, not the bullshit "crisis" scenario peddled by Abbott and swallowed by his acolytes

[Vangelovski]

Does anyone have an answer to where the money should come from...at the end of the day, it does cost money. Or is debt the only answer?

While I agree with EM that not all debt is inherently bad - some of it is obviously productive in that it creates wealth - I'd say that most government debt is bad as it is unproductive debt.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

There would be no alternative if this budget goes through though. Just yesterday the consumer confidence report came through and it dropped (which is only days after the budget announcement) to a level of back in 2011 which was the begging of the interest rate decline. And this happened only after an announcement of the budget, just wait till its reality, that's if this budget becomes reality.

I remember last week a question was asked to Joe Hockey. Why doesn't the Liberal party target corporate?
His response was "Corporate create jobs and we don't want to scare them"......or something along those lines.

Now I probably know jack shit about economy........but common sense tells me, if people start paying more at the bowser......Gas and Electricity cost more.........GST increase (which will happen) etc etc,
people will have no choice but to opt to live off scraps and rid themselves of both needs and wants, then altimately corporate will suffer as consumer confidence hits an all time low. What we have then is a snowball effect, job cuts, mortgage closures just like in the US, poverty........basically a total collapse.

Exactly. People are already doing it tough and these kind of policies will see a see the gap between societal classes increase. Overtime we have seen the gradual erosion of a number of key factors that make Australia so great; namely medicare and affordable education. This year's budget has taken a big step towards the US model, and you can bet that in the long-run we will see a spike in poverty if this kind of trend continues. Unemployment among the youth is already very high. Stripping them of the ability to develop skills and simultaneously limiting their access to social welfare is ridiculous.

[Bill77]

I don't see many people opting to live off scraps and rid themselves of both needs and wants, simply to pay off their mortgage within a few years.

There would be no alternative if this budget goes through though. Just yesterday the consumer confidence report came through and it dropped (which is only days after the budget announcement) to a level of back in 2011 which was the begging of the interest rate decline. And this happened only after an announcement of the budget, just wait till its reality, that's if this budget becomes reality.

I remember last week a question was asked to Joe Hockey. Why doesn't the Liberal party target corporate?
His response was "Corporate create jobs and we don't want to scare them"......or something along those lines.

Now I probably know jack shit about economy........but common sense tells me, if people start paying more at the bowser......Gas and Electricity cost more.........GST increase (which will happen) etc etc,
people will have no choice but to opt to live off scraps and rid themselves of both needs and wants, then altimately corporate will suffer as consumer confidence and actions hits an all time low. What we have then is a snowball effect, job cuts (what the government try to avoid) mortgage closures just like in the US, poverty........basically a total collapse.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

George here is the epitome of hearing an Abbott slogan one too many times, and taking it for the gospel. He seems like he'd be the perfect mouthpiece for the Liberals. Just about every slogan and smear campaign was summed up in that post. You forgot to add 'stop the boats' though.

You seem to know very little about abott he is a real genmtleman

Yeh, he seems like a great guy...LOL

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I think Australians have fallen into the pit of immediately assuming that debt is bad thing. Tony Abbott and co. have hammered the public with scare mongering tactics regarding the 'dire' state of our economy and the spiraling 'debt crisis.' Sure, poor management of debt can lead to problems, but we are light-years away from a Greece (or the like) scenario. We avoided a recession and have enjoyed steady economic growth. We've also got one of the lowest debt to GDP ratios in the developed world, so there is definitely no crisis.

This nonsense about returning to surplus within the next few years is just resulting in disproportionate cuts to fundamental aspects of the economy and society. I don't see many people opting to live off scraps and rid themselves of both needs and wants, simply to pay off their mortgage within a few years. It takes time. Likewise, rushing to pay off government debt will have adverse affects on society, in particular on students, the sick, and the elderly.

[Bill77]

Phoenix there's more to the libs than you'll know.That debt you so gingerly ignore is 1 billion dollars a month just in interest alone............You seem to know very little about abott he is a real genmtleman & a Rhodes scholar in economics.?.......Anyway buddy you are wrong about abbott let the man do the job.Stop
worrying about a few cutbacks he is trying to fix the debt you easily ignore.
grow up & face reality.?.....

yeh Phoenix.....take that

http://i.imgur.com/qjKzC9K.gif

[George S.]

Phoenix there's more to the libs than you'll know.That debt you so gingerly ignore is 1 billion dollars a month just in interest alone.You seem to know very little about abott he is a real genmtleman & a Rhodes scholar in economics.I used to vote for labor not anymore after I saw what Gillard & rudd did to our country.Do you know what these socialist criminals tried to do is wreck our economy.Do you know the carbon tax was meant to raise carbon credits OUR money was going to be given away gratis to overseas economies.DO you know there is no such a thing as carbon pollution.etc I can go on for ever.Anyway buddy you are wrong about abbott let the man do the job.Stop
worrying about a few cutbacks he is trying to fix the debt crisis you easily ignore & you say there isn't one.THose that demonstrate will have to carry on Im sure its not forever as things improve .At the moment I hear interst rates will come down further ,& further to ease the burden.
grow up & face reality.Would you rather have bill shorten & labor returned to power>??Or do you prefer Rudd or Gillard??You labor stalwart you!ARe you in there rooting for your team.During the period Gillard was in power she was found to have started a slush fund in the nineties for her boyfriend bruce willson.They bought a property with union funds & renovated a property.She is guilty as & she protected that Thomson guy who also rorted the union for 1 million dollars .Are you trying to dfend the indefencible.I'll have abott any day to labor.Maybe you should play your guitar gets some peace & direction in your life(emphasis is mine )Phoenix this is a response due to you being overly negative about abbott.Why won't you let him do the job he was elected to do.Let him do the job.He can't be anyworse than the previous govt.Labor has no say after all they did to hold abbott to account for promises.In my opinion the gst should have been raised & money raised to give to the states.Either that we should be taxed on food.Overseas everything gets taxed.Instead about quibbling about a few cutbacks.

[Phoenix]

Australia needs to get its house in order there are going to be unpopular cutbacks.We should all live within our means.who put the labor party in we did we then put abbott to fix the debt crisis.let him do the job.

George, there's no "debt crisis".
That's just Abbott-speak, what we have is a broken election promises crisis...just remember the destruction of Julia Gillard was orchestrated by the Libs on the back of broken election promises in relation to taxes and lies...it's history repeating itself very quickly...don't be fooled by cheap political slogans from an incompetent leader and cabinet who offered very little alternative policy whilst in opposition...it's a bit like buying the grapes before you've snuck a few in your gob...

[George S.]

Australia needs to get its house in order there are going to be unpopular cutbacks.We should all live within our means.who put the labor party in we did we then put abbott to fix the debt crisis.let him do the job.

[Vangelovski]

I think the real problem of debt in Australia is with household/personal debt...largely driven by the ridiculous price of housing in this country and the mortgages that householders have, this in turn exposes the banks to high risk, regardless of the perceived strength of our banking system.

Unfortunately, the federal budget doesn't address this fundamental flaw in our so called debt crisis...

Paying more for education, health and fuel doesn't do jack shit to eliminating personal debt, it will only increase that debt.

That's true, household/personal debt is the bulk of Australian debt and while making individuals pay for their own education will increase personal debt, taxing them (and everyone else) and borrowing in order to pay for higher education (and everything else) won't help either. We're living on credit on all fronts.

[Phoenix]

BBS and EM,

You make some good points re higher education, but the question at the end of the day is money and where it comes from.

The Federal Government is currently $350 billion in debt (according to the debt clock: http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/). Even more concerning is the total Australian debt - this includes the federal government, state government and private debt, which is a total of $5 trillion. And just look at how that debt has increased over the past 24 years:

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/history

I'm just wondering how you propose that higher education (along with everything else we've become accustomed to) is paid for without actually turning into Greece (or worse yet, Macedonia) and not having anything.

I think the real problem of debt in Australia is with household/personal debt...largely driven by the ridiculous price of housing in this country and the mortgages that householders have, this in turn exposes the banks to high risk, regardless of the perceived strength of our banking system.

Unfortunately, the federal budget doesn't address this fundamental flaw in our so called debt crisis...

Paying more for education, health and fuel doesn't do jack shit to eliminating personal debt, it will only increase that debt.

[Vangelovski]

BBS and EM,

You make some good points re higher education, but the question at the end of the day is money and where it comes from.

The Federal Government is currently $350 billion in debt (according to the debt clock: http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/). Even more concerning is the total Australian debt - this includes the federal government, state government and private debt, which is a total of $5 trillion. And just look at how that debt has increased over the past 24 years:

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/history

I'm just wondering how you propose that higher education (along with everything else we've become accustomed to) is paid for without actually turning into Greece (or worse yet, Macedonia) and not having anything.