Macedonian Census

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8533

    Macedonian Census

    Someone finally realised that we haven't had one in a while. Though I doubt we'll have an accurate one in a long while.

    http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...overdue-census

    Macedonia Urged to Hold Census Despite Ethnic Row

    A coalition of Macedonian NGOs and population experts is demanding a long-overdue population headcount after the last census was scrapped in 2011 because of ethnic disputes.


    The coalition has launched a campaign called ‘Census Now’, saying that Macedonia must not be held hostage by political elites that interrupted the last census because of the sensitive issue of how many ethnic Macedonians and Albanians live in the country.

    The campaigners will hold round-table discussions across Macedonia to promote the idea that a census is necessary to create proper development policies.

    “You cannot carry out a successful regional development policy without a population headcount. The same goes for policies in education, economic development, infrastructure, transport,” said Biljana Bejkova from the NGO Info Centre.

    The last attempt to hold a census in October 2011 was scrapped after it began due to ethnic disputes.

    Ethnic Albanian parties and NGOs claimed that the Macedonian majority on the census commission had arranged the criteria in order to falsely underestimate the number of Albanians in the country.

    The government of Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski then annulled the census after the commission tendered its collective resignation. The government has not budgeted for a headcount this year.

    The last completed census in 2002 showed that 64 per cent of the country’s population was Macedonian and 25 per cent ethnic Albanian. Roma, Turks, Serbs and other minorities made up the rest.

    Aferdita Imeri, an expert on social inclusion, said that socially marginalised groups were among the hardest hit by the lack of accurate population data.

    “While the more powerful groups fight for their rights through lobbying, no one thinks about the most vulnerable, those who are on the margins of the society, because we don’t have them in our statistics and they are not included in our development programmes,” Imeri said.

    Ljupco Petkovski from the NGO Macedonian Centre for European Education proposed a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ between the two main ethnic political elites, Macedonian and Albanian, in order to ensure a successful census.

    “If the census shows that the Albanians are more than 25 per cent, the Albanians would be obliged not to demand any more rights than they currently enjoy. If the census shows that they are below 20 per cent, then the Macedonian elites would not make problems about the rights that have already been won,” Petkovski suggested.

    The first public debate on the issue, dubbed 'A Census Means Democracy, Not a Mere Ethnic Number' was held in the ethnically mixed town of Tetovo on Monday.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
  • Volokin
    Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 278

    #2
    It's obvious why the Government doesn't want to organize one. With greater numbers comes greater calls for "rights". I do think we should have one though, I don't know if it will be as accurate as we want it to be, but I am interested to see the current state of Macedonia's demographics.

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #3
      you''l never get the correct demographics as long as the respective govts have their finger in the pie.What they got nothing to hide?That was an understatement THEY DO and they aren't that stupid to reveal the TRUTH.It's not in their interests.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15660

        #4
        Are there Macedonian elites?
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Volokin
          Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 278

          #5
          Are there any accurate figures of the current demographics of Macedonia?

          Otherwise, are there any outside estimates that are recognized as being "legitimate"?

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            #6
            they were saying in the recent elections 10-12% of the vote was wroughted.The previous census the Albanians were cheating the census on a grand scale.They know full well that it's nn their interest to wrought the census.THey used turks to call them Albanians.Also a lot of the Albanians wanted to come down in june-july on holidays from Switzerland etc just so that they can cast their declaration on census day.Lucky the Macedonians picked up on the wholesale wroughting.Tricks the Albanians get up to is they might have overseas born children who are born to them they bring them to Macedonia & register them as being born in Macedonia just so they can falsify the census and also to be able to vote.
            Wouldn't that be just great if we could as Macedonians register our children in the diaspora as Macedonians like the Albanians.?
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • Alex_MK
              Junior Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 45

              #7
              Originally posted by George S. View Post
              they were saying in the recent elections 10-12% of the vote was wroughted.The previous census the Albanians were cheating the census on a grand scale.They know full well that it's nn their interest to wrought the census.THey used turks to call them Albanians.Also a lot of the Albanians wanted to come down in june-july on holidays from Switzerland etc just so that they can cast their declaration on census day.Lucky the Macedonians picked up on the wholesale wroughting.Tricks the Albanians get up to is they might have overseas born children who are born to them they bring them to Macedonia & register them as being born in Macedonia just so they can falsify the census and also to be able to vote.
              Wouldn't that be just great if we could as Macedonians register our children in the diaspora as Macedonians like the Albanians.?
              I'm not sure if they are counting the diaspora as most of them don't actually have Macedonian citizenship and therefore can't vote. But as we all know politics is a dangerous game that can be manipulated easily but who knows.

              I know for last years elections alot of the Albanian diaspora came during March to vote.. and as a result they won alot of the elections. BTW, where was our diaspora? Why didn't they go down in droves and vote like the Albanians?

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                #8
                the diaspora doesn't seem to care for the vote neither does gruevski who just pays lip service.You'd think the diaspora vote would be a controlling vote but its worked the other way with the diaspora candidate supporting the ruling party.
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13675

                  #9
                  Ljupco Petkovski from the NGO Macedonian Centre for European Education proposed a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ between the two main ethnic political elites, Macedonian and Albanian, in order to ensure a successful census.

                  “If the census shows that the Albanians are more than 25 per cent, the Albanians would be obliged not to demand any more rights than they currently enjoy. If the census shows that they are below 20 per cent, then the Macedonian elites would not make problems about the rights that have already been won,” Petkovski suggested.
                  How many more "rights" do they want....Anyway, if it is fair and honest, I say bring it on. However, irrespective of how significant minority populations are, the Macedonian identity, language and culture should always be prominent in Macedonia, and that should be enshrined in the constitution as an unamendable clause in recognition of the country's indigenous and host community.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • George S.
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 10116

                    #10
                    I fully agree with that OM.Only rights as much as normal Macedonians are entitled.No more priveleges.No more whttling of Macedonia's soveregnity and making of stupid ohrid agreements secending away Macedonian control of their land.No more tearing of or shrines and demanding Albanian as a second language when Albanians don't learn Macedonian or their history.The constitution should be amended to say that Macedonia will look after and guarantee normal citizen ship rights to normal Macedonian citizens with the usual treatment of minorities in other countries.Macedonia should be the tatkovina of the Macedonians foremost.If people be they Albanians etc come on board they will be respected as long as they don't have irrendist behaviour of a greater Albania & behave themselves they should be afforded normal citizenship rights.Macedonians are very tolerant of all their minorities lets hope they assimilate into Macedonia and we are one big happy family! That's my wish.
                    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                    GOTSE DELCEV

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8533

                      #11
                      Gruevski has proposed a new census:

                      http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...s-on-headcount
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #12
                        as lo ng as the census is rorted which it is they shouldn't have one ,why because it will be inaccurate.IT SHOULD BE ON THE DAY THAT PEOPLE ARE LIVING in Macedonia not shiptars coming on holidays.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13675

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                          Gruevski has proposed a new census:

                          http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...s-on-headcount
                          They should just do it and get it over with, so long as it is done methodically and accurate.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8533

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            They should just do it and get it over with, so long as it is done methodically and accurate.
                            If we could get an accurate count it would be good.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              #15
                              I do appreciate your comments re having a census.BUT how can you have a proper census when the Albanian shiptars are hell bent on rorting it.We have seen the extent they are willing to go to falsify their status.Also they adopt all sorts of illegal practices to falsify the data to make it look like there are more of them than us.Its done to undermine the sovereignity of Macedonia.I say if they are going to get caught,they should be excluded from the census completely.Who the fuck cares about the shiptars I don't.I say if they are caught rorting the census then exclude them from participating.I,m sorry but that is the reality.They will stop at nothing to falsify data.Fact children born to them in os
                              are bought to Macedonia and they make it look like they were born in Macedonia.Why should we recognize them?Also the Albanians have been claiming turks as Albanians.
                              I can understand if it were an isolated case but this is done in a wholsale way they want to show that there are more Albanians.Think about why for the ohrid agreement implications.
                              The fact is because of the rorting there are various estimates of the Albanians they are far less to what they claim.Yes I say have a correct census but if they are caught rorting data then they should be excluded completely.
                              Last edited by George S.; 07-18-2014, 05:39 PM.
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

                              Comment

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